86 Turbo Z / 89 Shelby full transplant O2 wire question

[woodrowz]

I'm not on here a whole lot. And chances are I'm posting in the wrong area. But I've been doing a full swap from an 89 Shelby Daytona into my 86 Turbo Z. I've got the AIS, TPS, LM, and MAP sensor wiring figured out and done. The ONLY thing that is holding me back right now is the O2 wiring. I took the one from the Shelby. It's a 4 wire. 2 grey, 1 white and a black. I've heard from a few different sources that I need a 2 or a 3 wire. I haven't really gotten a straight answer. The car wiring has the stock 1 wire in still. I did find out that there is a power lead that is on the right side of the frame rail that I have already tapped into that I've been told is used for the power on the O2. Just haven't landed it yet. So, in short if any of you knowledgeable T-M folks could help me out I'd really appreciate it.

Here is a link to my Cardomain page so you can get a better idea of what has been going on.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/287247...-dodge-daytona

[jackerman]

Not sure what to say but my 89 has a 4 wire o2 and harness

[1BADVAN]

For deciding what O2 sensor to use depends on what computer and wiring harness you are using
. I assume you are using a LM so is it a 86 style with the map on the LM, or an 87 LM with the MAP in the engine bay? The GLHS LMs and 87 LMs use 3 wire O2s but the 86 uses the 2 wire.

So again what LM are you using?

[woodrowz]

It's got the stock 86 z LM

[1BADVAN]

It's got the stock 86 z LM

If you are looking to modify it and upgrade it i would suggest upgrading to a 87 LM as it is more available to custom cals.

On the other side i would guess that running the stock computer you will need just the stock 1 wire sensor. Because that is what the computer is programmed to read

[woodrowz]

I guess that makes sense right, lol. I didn't change the LM because everyone I talked to said the stock one would still work with slight pin changes. One day soon I will be changing to the 87 LM. But for the time being I want to get this beast on the road. I really miss driving it. I haven't for almost 3 years. And I junked the old sensor. Looks like I'll be J-yard hopping this weekend. Any problems I may have by putting a 1 wire in with the T2 set up?

[1BADVAN]

No problems i know of again the computer just wants to see a signal and it is already wired for the one wire. they are just less accurate than multi wire ones cause they take a long time to heat up with no heater.
I hear you on just wanting to drive it! This is the first time in about 3 years i have had my van running in the summer.

---------- Post added at 12:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 PM ----------

You could even run it without one as it isn't even used under full throttle by the computer. It is only used to slightly adjust fuel at idle and cruise. Not that i would run it like that for long but you can still fire the motor and cruise around a bit.

[jackerman]

Oh I was thinking of complete 89 swap sorry

[woodrowz]

Oh I was thinking of complete 89 swap sorry

Well, pretty much. When I got the 89 it was a wire NIGHTMARE! What do you expect for paying $250 for a Shelby daytona right. I got it running after the Z blew the trans. I put about 50 miles on it when it pretty much started a fire behind the dash. It sucked bad. So the harness was unusable. So everything mechanical was swapped into the Z

No problems i know of again the computer just wants to see a signal and it is already wired for the one wire. they are just less accurate than multi wire ones cause they take a long time to heat up with no heater.
I hear you on just wanting to drive it! This is the first time in about 3 years i have had my van running in the summer.
.

So that brings up another question because I'm curious. If and when I do decide to get an 87 LM. Will I have to swap the pins back and use the under hood MAP? Or will I be fine to just throw it in and rewire it for the under hood MAP?

[1BADVAN]

Well, pretty much. When I got the 89 it was a wire NIGHTMARE! What do you expect for paying $250 for a Shelby daytona right. I got it running after the Z blew the trans. I put about 50 miles on it when it pretty much started a fire behind the dash. It sucked bad. So the harness was unusable. So everything mechanical was swapped into the Z



So that brings up another question because I'm curious. If and when I do decide to get an 87 LM. Will I have to swap the pins back and use the under hood MAP? Or will I be fine to just throw it in and rewire it for the under hood MAP?

As far as I know to go from 86 to 87 is like 5 pins to swap some were for the TPS and AIS and yes adding the underhood MAP it sounded pretty quick and easy to me, thats why i had some LM pins for you cause i got them to do the swap if I ever needed to.

[woodrowz]

Perfect. Thanks again for those!

[4 l-bodies]

I'm not on here a whole lot. And chances are I'm posting in the wrong area. But I've been doing a full swap from an 89 Shelby Daytona into my 86 Turbo Z. I've got the AIS, TPS, LM, and MAP sensor wiring figured out and done. The ONLY thing that is holding me back right now is the O2 wiring. I took the one from the Shelby. It's a 4 wire. 2 grey, 1 white and a black. I've heard from a few different sources that I need a 2 or a 3 wire. I haven't really gotten a straight answer. The car wiring has the stock 1 wire in still. I did find out that there is a power lead that is on the right side of the frame rail that I have already tapped into that I've been told is used for the power on the O2. Just haven't landed it yet. So, in short if any of you knowledgeable T-M folks could help me out I'd really appreciate it.
Here is a link to my Cardomain page so you can get a better idea of what has been going on.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/287247...-dodge-daytona

You really need a 89 FSM (possibly a 87) & your 86 FSM to do this correctly. Hope you have them. Trying to wade through this without all wiring diagrams is ill advised. I don't know where to start, but here goes. 89 is TII SMEC while 86 is a T1 LM application. Duh right? Bear with me. You say you have the AIS, TPS, MAP and LM wires figured out and done? How could that possibly be wired correctly if you are using your stock 86 LM? Deciding on staying with a LM dictates you using a LM that came from TII application. That excludes using your 86 T1 LM. Why? What pins are you connecting the two additional AIS wires to? There is no circuit dedicated to that function in the 86 T1 LM. In other words, it does not have provisions for a 4 wire AIS built into it. Like stated in a earlier post, you need a minimum of a 86-87 GLHS but preferably a 87 Shelby Z TII, or 87 SL or 87 CSX LM. If you have cruise control in the vehicle and want to retain it, that could dictate which engine controller you should purchase. How about navigation system in your vehicle? Another decision for which controller to choose. There are wiring changes between the GLHS and the 87 LM. Even that approach seems a little counterproductive as the 88-89 SMEC is a much improved engine controller. Bottom line is you need to decide what year engine controller that that will run your motor and accessories and then make the appropriate wiring changes.
It seems like a lot less work to me to graft in the 88/89 bulkhead connector wiring to your existing bulkhead than to graft in all the 87-89 TII wiring mods into all the 86 LM wiring. Meaning, changing out the whole engine bay harness. Yes there are headlight differences, but this is minor stuff. You also will have lots of vacuum/pressure pneumatics to change going from log manifold to 1 piece intake. Don't have a good harness? Buy one. You can usually find them in the parts for sale quite often. In fact, I have a complete 87 Shelby Z TII engine and underdash harness available for sale should you want to consider that. Goes all the way through both doors! I also have a 88 Daytona Shelby Z engine harness that is complete except the ignition switch wires were cut rather than unbolted. Someone beat me to the steering column in the salvage yard. That would be an easy fix. You would need to find a 87 engine controller for my 87 harness. I do though have a 88 TII smec available with the 88 harness.
There are many reasons the factory went to a SMEC design. It was simply evolution. It is plainly a superior design than the LM. IMO, the four wire 02 is going to be the least of your worries. If you can't figure out the o2 wiring changes, just keep it a 1 wire o2 for the time being. The o2 is self powered when heated, and the sensor signal wire is really all it needs to get the motor into closed loop mode. BTW- all 87 LM (except 87 GLHS) used an external map sensor, so that wiring would need to be done too if going to 87 wiring.
Hope this helps,
Todd

[tryingbe]

87 TII wiring with 87 LM is a must, if you don't do 89.


http://fwdmopar.50megs.com/T2conv.html

[4 l-bodies]

Read your PM. Report back with your results running your stock log manifold LM controlling a 4 wire AIS motor. Can't say a few of us didn't advise you against that game plan.
Todd

[1BADVAN]

Read your PM. Report back with your results running your stock log manifold LM controlling a 4 wire AIS motor. Can't say a few of us didn't advise you against that game plan.
Todd

What do you mean? He is not running the log manifold. He is running a T2 one piece intake.
I agree with your earlier post that an 87 is probably better if not needed, but he seemed to have learned from others about how to retain the 86. But as for the SMEC there is a ton more work for that with what i think is minimal gains. yes it is a bit smoother, but there are plenty of people with great running cars that use LMs

[4 l-bodies]

What do you mean? He is not running the log manifold. He is running a T2 one piece intake.
I agree with your earlier post that an 87 is probably better if not needed, but he seemed to have learned from others about how to retain the 86. But as for the SMEC there is a ton more work for that with what i think is minimal gains. yes it is a bit smoother, but there are plenty of people with great running cars that use LMs

I remember a father at SDAC-14 in Waukegan that was so pround of his son's SD. After talking to him for 10-15 minutes I went over to look at his son's vehicle. I noticed the AIS motor had a cut off wiring pigtail and asked him about that. He said yeah we fixed that idling problem. We just cut the wires to it and controlled the idle with the set screw. Works a bunch better now. His son's entire engine bay pretty much was like this. Just about every other sensor was snipped off and eliminated. I looked at it and said yeah you guys fixed it all right (lol)! To his credit the vehicle was there though. I don't know if it was driven or towed to the hotel. My point is there is fixing it and there is FIXING it.

I am aware that he is attempting to run a 1 piece intake with 4 wire AIS motor. Explain to me how a logic module designed for a 2 wire AIS motor will control a 4 wire AIS properly? That is what I meant. On 86, you have red 22 AIS close signal (N-2 circuit) and red 18 AIS open signal (N-1 circuit). That is it. A 4 wire AIS motor needs those in addition to red 16 (N-4 circuit) and red 20 (N-3 circuit) to function properly. These two are open or blank in the 85-86 log manifold LM. So you guys just hook the wires to a blank circuit and expect them to function? Sure the vehicle will start, but will it control idle as it should with 50% of the circuits not functioning? Like Dr' Phil says, "how's that workin for yeah"?
I agree, plenty of LM cars out there that run fine. 87 LM wiring will do the job. If you have a 88/89 harness available that is close to a plug n play, and you really only need to match up the 50 pin bulkhead connector wiring, that IMO, isn't a ton of work. It seems like six of these and half dozen of those to me. Since you guys seem to think that less is more, why even bother changing out the one wire o2 circuit? 85-86 LM cars used a 1 wire. That will still function just fine with a 1 piece, 2 piece, log manifold, or any sort of manifold you put on there. Run a 18mm tap through swingvalve so it gets a good ground and be done with it. The 3 & 4 wires were done for emission reasons and for better grounding of o2. The OP seems to be slightly lost with the wiring mods (who wouldn't be without a FSM) so why change the o2 wiring out if he doesn't have the proper tools (FSM) to do it correctly?
Todd

[1BADVAN]

I remember a father at SDAC-14 in Waukegan that was so pround of his son's SD. After talking to him for 10-15 minutes I went over to look at his son's vehicle. I noticed the AIS motor had a cut off wiring pigtail and asked him about that. He said yeah we fixed that idling problem. We just cut the wires to it and controlled the idle with the set screw. Works a bunch better now. His son's entire engine bay pretty much was like this. Just about every other sensor was snipped off and eliminated. I looked at it and said yeah you guys fixed it all right (lol)! To his credit the vehicle was there though. I don't know if it was driven or towed to the hotel. My point is there is fixing it and there is FIXING it.

I am aware that he is attempting to run a 1 piece intake with 4 wire AIS motor. Explain to me how a logic module designed for a 2 wire AIS motor will control a 4 wire AIS properly? That is what I meant. On 86, you have red 22 AIS close signal (N-2 circuit) and red 18 AIS open signal (N-1 circuit). That is it. A 4 wire AIS motor needs those in addition to red 16 (N-4 circuit) and red 20 (N-3 circuit) to function properly. These two are open or blank in the 85-86 log manifold LM. So you guys just hook the wires to a blank circuit and expect them to function? Sure the vehicle will start, but will it control idle as it should with 50% of the circuits not functioning? Like Dr' Phil says, "how's that workin for yeah"?
I agree, plenty of LM cars out there that run fine. 87 LM wiring will do the job. If you have a 88/89 harness available that is close to a plug n play, and you really only need to match up the 50 pin bulkhead connector wiring, that IMO, isn't a ton of work. It seems like six of these and half dozen of those to me. Since you guys seem to think that less is more, why even bother changing out the one wire o2 circuit? 85-86 LM cars used a 1 wire. That will still function just fine with a 1 piece, 2 piece, log manifold, or any sort of manifold you put on there. Run a 18mm tap through swingvalve so it gets a good ground and be done with it. The 3 & 4 wires were done for emission reasons and for better grounding of o2. The OP seems to be slightly lost with the wiring mods (who wouldn't be without a FSM) so why change the o2 wiring out if he doesn't have the proper tools (FSM) to do it correctly?
Todd

Makes sense i was just saying that for him LM is the way to go, I agree that a 4 wire AIS wont work with that LM, but the SMEC wiring he had caught the car on fire so it is easier in his situation to upgrade to the 87 LM.

Jeremy, If you can find an 87 turbo LM I have the stuff I could Chip it and burn a stock cal for you for cheap. To help get you on the road. As "4 l-bodies" pointed out it prob won't run well on the 86 LM, I didn't initially realize that was your plan.

[BOOSTIFIED]

So if I read this right, to swap from t1 LM electronics to 88-89 smec, do you have to swap dash harnesses as well?

[banger68]

So if I read this right, to swap from t1 LM electronics to 88-89 smec, do you have to swap dash harnesses as well?

Depends if you want the 88-89 bulkhead connector.

[woodrowz]

Actuallt got this beast running. Ended up using a LM from an 87 shelby Lancer. Runs great! 1wire O2. And swapped for the underhood MAP. And yes, using the 'bulkhead' connector for the AIS/TPS. I finally got to update the cardomain link in my first post.