3.0 sohc build

[Sundance 6g72]

you seem to be keeping up on this thread so i wont bother returning the pm, ill just post in here.

I run the 3800SC injectors. back when i found them, i did the research and found them to be either 33 or 36#. They just dropped right in. I would not run them on a stock ecu unless you lower the base pressure to like 30psi or something.

They are high impedence so make sure your ecu supports that (megasquirt likes high impedence)

[Wiscoballer]

http://www.gmtuners.com/flow/index.htm

found this, shows that series 1 are about 29 Lb/Hr.

Are the stock ones low or high impedance?

[Wiscoballer]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/94-99-DODGE-NEON-FRONT-UPPER-POLISHED-STRUT-BAR-JDM-STYLE-1ST-GEN-/120799389381?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories &fits=Year%3A1995%7CModel%3ANeon&hash=item1c203466 c5&vxp=mtr#ht_713wt_1270

Will this work with my car?

[Sundance 6g72]

not sure if it will clear the hood. neon bars have to be re drilled to fit as well.


as for the injectors, i have no idea about sizes. i determined mine where 33 or 36 a long time ago. cant remember what year car they are from.

high or low impedance is dependent on your year ecu. Not that it should matter, if you go megasquirt, you need high impedance. stock injector size is 19# btw.

[Wiscoballer]

good to know about the neon bar, I thought the first gen bars bolted right in. Series 2 are 36 LB/Hr, thats prob what you got. I wirant to be able to run on stock computer as well as MS just in case MS is acting up, or if I push MS off a bit.

[Wiscoballer]

looks like a found a T3 Turbo thats a 60Trim, needs a rebuild, but $50 asking isnt bad.

[Ondonti]

I don't think the turbo sizing is heading in the right direction here.
Picking the wrong turbo and trying to fix it with nitrous...that will just make thing worse.

[Wiscoballer]

I am not trying to fix it with nitrous, its just an option. the turbo I found seemed quite similar to the one c2x recommended.

[Sundance 6g72]

try and find the actual wheel dimensions. i got lucky with mine. all i know about it is its a 63trim with a .60ar or something like that. lol

rebuilding turbos is not to hard if you take your time the first time through

drilling the neon bar is not hard but that bar looks to be too tall but its hard to say.

[Wiscoballer]

T3 flanged T60 turbo thats siezed (just needs a rebuild) - $50

Thats what I know. I asked him for photos, I will post them when I get them. I didn't think it would be that hard. The other turbos he has for sale are:
T3 flanged T70 turbo - $150 (Has some shaft play but didn't smoke)
Brand new still in the box, T4 flanged T60 turbo - $300
CT10 turbo works good and no shaft play Mitsu flange/garrett - $75 (smaller then a T25)
16g knock off turbo with shaft play - $75

I don't want to pay the $300, as I can get that one that c2j posted for less. The CT10 would be too small, and I am unsure of the 16g

[c2xejk]

if it is only slightly larger, then why would it make a huge difference? sorry if it is a stupid question. I am not going for an all out build, I simply want to add a bit of horsepower to my car.

A increases by the square of the radius. So you don't have to double the radius to double the area. Area of the turbine exducer (exit of the hot side) is generally indicative of the exhaust side hp capability.

The turbo I am currently running (a T3/T40B w/stage 3 turbine wheel) is not much (physically) bigger than a Mitsu, but flows and performs much better because the wheels are bigger. It supports 300whp @ ~9psi. The car idles at 21.5"Hg.

[Sundance 6g72]

keep in mind ed has his ported heads, ported intake, and his awsome header with an external wastegate while making that 300whp. it all works together


something to keep in mind, the internal wastegates on the cheep turbos will most likely be to small for our engines. an external wastegate would be needed or porting of the internal wastegate. My car right now rips past 8psi like its nothing. still need to install my external gate.

[Wiscoballer]

was planning on an external, hence why I am trying to pick up a cheaper turbo, save room in the budget for the extras

[c2xejk]

If you are handy, rebuilding a turbo is not too difficult. Just need to make sure the wheels have not touched/been damaged.

[Wiscoballer]

is there a better turbo out of that list?

[Vigo]

I think we need to go over what makes up a turbo..

If we think of the compressor inlet as the 'front', then let's go front to back..

Compressor cover, compressor wheel, compressor backplate, center section, turbine wheel, turbine housing. Those are the major pieces. A really complete, accurate for sale listing will name most of those pieces (naming all is rare because some are interconnected and when you specify one you imply the other). MOST listings might name one or two of those pieces, maybe not correctly, and then make up some bullshit term that they think encompasses the whole thing when it really tells you jack ----. For example, 'trim' numbers are meaningless without knowing the compressor wheel 'family' (specifically the exducer diameter) but there are a lot of listings that just say 'XX trim turbo'.

Of that list, the 't4-flanged t60' sounds like the best fit for a 3.0 to me. The t4-flange is referring to the turbine inlet flange, where the turbo bolts to the exhaust manifold. There are lots of other flanges on a turbo but usually when people talk about a turbo flange they are talking about the turbine inlet flange. T4 is a garrett 'family' of turbos although you will see turbos and turbine housings that use the t4 flange without being based on garrett designs. The 't60' is a misnomer as far as i know. It is probably referring to a t04e 60-trim compressor side (compressor side refers to the compressor wheel, cover, and backplate when i use it..). That compressor side would be a decent fit for the 3.0 motor. Unfortunately, that description doesnt tell you what turbine wheel or housing is on that turbo, and that COULD be a dealbreaker.

Every compressor wheel and turbine wheel has an inducer diameter, and an exducer diameter. You really need to know these numbers to be completely sure what a turbo is because most people dont know how to refer to turbos and will just give you some made up half-baked term when describing what they're trying to sell to you. My .02 on turbo sizing for a street-driven turbo 3.0 is try to find a compressor wheel with an inducer diameter between 55-62mm and dont worry about the exducer diameter too much. That should be your starting point for 'is this turbo even in the ballpark'. Then look at the turbine diameter and try to get an exducer diameter somewhere in the 55-60mm region. Im willing to bet that regardless of brand/family/style/flange etc etc etc, most of the turbos that our 3.0 users here would call 'a good fit' will fall within those number ranges.

[Ondonti]

60 trim t3 turbo is not anything like a 60 trim t04e series wheel. Its like running an upgraded t1 garrett.
T4 is nowhere in that description Vigo. My financial advice would be to never buy something unless you are sure what it is or are willing to buy something else when it doesn't work out. If you are going to use it no matter what, don't buy a mistake.


That said. Nitrous to make up for the wrong turbo is a huge waste of money that you keep wasting. Its worth it to buy the right product the first time, especially when your nitrous kit and refilling costs a lot more then the right size turbo ever will.

[Vigo]

Brand new still in the box, T4 flanged T60 turbo - $300

That's out of his post.. So yes t4 IS in there. But it's still a ---- description and might not even be a t4 turbo.

[Wiscoballer]

Like I said, the t4 is more expensive than the one c2j mentioned, so it is not an option. I will wait for pictures of the t3, and post them up.

He emailed me back, said I would get pics tomorrow. 16G is pending for friday, so it looks like the CT10 or the T3 are my main options, followed by the T70

[Ondonti]

the t4 could be a 60-1 which would be a great turbo...except that the turbine side would be a mystery.