guess its time for a "whats needed to rebuild 3.0 thread"

[Sundance 6g72]

plan is to pick up a motor tomorrow. What should i look for? im hoping to find a late model van with low miles. ill be turning the crank to see if things are good


what i need is links on where to buy things, how to go about stuff, etc.

i want to run 1g dsm headbolts for my 2 bolt main just because. ill be using the new motors heads with my current cams. they will be milled for flatness and valve stem seals replaced.. unless i get lazy again :P

rings and bearings is my main concern.. idk where to start or how to go about anything. halp

[Mdoe8]

Sounds like you're going towards a similar build as me1 Going to open the ring gaps?

As for junkyard, it's tough to tell without pulling things apart. Aside from obvious visual clues, check all plugs to make sure they look normalish.

Are you going to completely rebuild the motor? A simple plastigauge clearance check is a good way to get things going as far as checking bearings.

[Sundance 6g72]

i want to do what is necessary to make it reliable with boost. 12-16psi through my turbo.

i want to keep stock pistons rods crank. heads will be stock with my mitsu cams.

the rings will deff have to be opened up to support the power i want on 93 octane. i want to find a 95+ up motor to be sure it has the good valve guides. for the heads, i only want to have to swap in new valve stem seals. i never ended up doing it with my car. new headgaskets seemed to cure the oil burning that i had.. so much for that.


i guess im trying to take a stock block and make it as good as it will get on a budget. 1g dsm headbolts are easy to find (im assuming 1g 4g63 headbolts are same N/A or turbo)

rings are needed and opening the gap is free.

as far as bearing go.. i have no idea where to start. i know i have to measure things but ive never done such a thing so ill have to tear into it to figure all that out.



with the new motor, ill be able to mock up a custom rear manifold with provisions for my wastegate.

[Mdoe8]

Hit up youtube for measuring clearances. Its pretty simple and even easier when you see someone else do it first.

[Sundance 6g72]

i will for sure man.

what all should i expect to buy for the block (not worried about heads right now)

[Shadow24]

there shouldn't be much to buy for the block really. If your doing a complete R&R on the motor, there are a couple things to keep in mind. Watch out for the new bearings, some places won't tell you that the bearings they list are now aluminum instead of Tri-mental. You'll also need plastigauge to check the clearances on the bottom end.

If all is good on the new motor's bottom end, i wouldn't mess with it if you don't have to. you really don't need to swap rings out either if they are in good shape (gap to fit boosted application of course) as the current rings are already bedded to the cylinders and you won't realy have to "break in" the motor if you keep the old rings.

I'd also refresh the timing components and the front & rear main seals, just in case (PITA to fix later). Other than that, I'm not sure there is much else you'd need to address on a replacement motor without spending a ton of money that probably isn't needed in your application

[Sundance 6g72]

how do i check oil pump clearneces? im thinking just swap my oil pump in. im worried any new ones wont be as good as oem (this is stock)

[RoadWarrior222]

You don't want my list, it's a bit strange and experimental, and while it adds up fine in theory, I need to get the bits and test assemble....

But anyhoo, what Shadow24 said, plus the waterpump so I can forget about it for 100K... then of course, "on condition" for everything else, like if the coolant crosspipe looks rotty etc.

However, one thing, the rings got thinner as the years went on... I am not sure anyone has run boost on the thinnest rings (Wanna say 98 ish to end of run) There's also some claimed compression bump later on, but no-one has been able to measure it.

[Sundance 6g72]

i can compare them to my motor's pistons. maybe the part number for the rings is different?

i want new rings. ill get the nice crome ones ed uses.


so i dont need new bearings if my current ones check out?

[RoadWarrior222]

Not saying they never ever need bearings, but they have to be abused by Satan himself, or Brent learning to tune, so unless you get a 500,000 miler that was run out of oil and you're only messing with because you got it for free... then you probably won't have to worry about it... (Given a reasonable choice of two or three motors i.e. not forced to take the only one in 200 miles for less than $1000)

[Sundance 6g72]

my motor will run me 125 lol

so bearings are good if they look good and the clearances check out

check

[Shadow24]

These motors are pretty bullet-resistant (was going to say bullet-proof, but you CAN kill them if you REALLY TRY ). If you want to check the oil pump, all you need are the specs (haynes or FSM) and a feeler gauge. If you didn't have any issues with oil pressure/flow, again its not something to really worry about. You could always pick the better of the two depending on the motor you get (as RW222 pointed out, mileage, abuse etc). The only real issue with the oil pump is when you start revving above 9000, the gears can shatter (see 3si.org), but for turboed under 8000rpms, you shouldn't have any issues.

and to reiterate RW222 - water pump and timing components are cheap insurance.

FWIW, I spun 2 rod bearings a couple years back (oil pressure sender disappeared at 6000rpms at the track dumping all my oil) and was able to toss in a set of new stock sized bearings, new front and rear main seals and go. no damage to the crank or rods luckily (spun them at idle and didn't run it much afterwards). Motor is still running ATM with probably another 100 drag passes and 30,000 miles w/o issues.

[Mdoe8]

Agreed with everything said above, well put guys!

Also, LOL at "or brent learning to tune"

[Sundance 6g72]

this is my list so far

Heads -

new valve stem seals
3.3 conical springs
lightweight ls1 retainers
mitsu oem cams
milled for flatness
MLS headgaskets (unless the price highly out weighs felpros. I might go felpro with copper spray)
smoothed out and polished ports

block

- fresh hone. i want to break it in nicely. the ecu is tuned for boost so mine as well take advantage. alot of you guys dont have the luxury of being able to break the motor in with boost due to no boost tune.

new rings. ill go with ed's rings or the rings DSM graveyard can get me. im still talking to them about it
new bearings (depending if needed or not)
oil pump checked
new timing belt from current block
new water pump
new front and rear main.
dsm headbolts for 2bolt main. do these need to be new or is it acceptable to pull them off a junkyard 1g 4g63?


what about wrist pins? (is that what they are called? the thing that holds the piston to the rod. ive never actually held a piston and rod or looked at how they are connected. do these need to be checked?

did i miss anything for the heads and block? right now im only talking heads and block. the other stuff will come later.

[MC#4]

I always put money into machine work on a rebuild. I always get heads cleaned and pressure tested (for cracks), Good idea to get a fresh 3 angle valve job too. I always have them clean the block and magnaflux it (for cracks). Let them determine if the heads need milled or if the block needs decked. I'm also a big fan of torque plates when boring/honing in a performance build. I know alot of guys say these motors don't need a torque plate but It can only help. You should consider letting them check for bent rods too since it only costs a couple dollars and then you know.

At the very least let the machine shop clean your heads/block, it will make your experience much more pleasant.

[Sundance 6g72]

they will def be checking the heads and block to make sure the surfaces are nice and smooth. not sure about a valve job. how important is it? if the guides are in place and not dropped.. a valve job cost money, new valves and guides and im not sure if its needed


only reason for the spring and retainer upgrade is that i mine as well do it while the car is down and out sense ive already bought the stem seals. otherwise i would use my current heads that didnt seem to leak oil when the new headgaskets were installed.

i am on a budget here.. if i can get my mom to buy me cleaning supplies so i can clean the block my self.. then thats what ill do LOL

---------- Post added at 02:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:14 PM ----------

so we are supposed to be able to run MLS dohc headgaskets

these are the pictures autozone provided me. (dosnt mean they are exact but im curious)

felpro composite (what brent and i have)



MLS for dohc twin turbo (also felpro)



i guess if the blocks are the same then the headgaskets should be the same..

---------- Post added at 02:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 PM ----------

i might pull a dohc head and compare the headgasket to my original ones

[MC#4]

Around here its common practice for a the shop to clean the heads/block before ANY work. You could scrub the block for days and detail with a toothbrush but as soon as they get it they will throw it in thier "hot-tank" overnight to clean all the passages and everything. You can prob get away without a valve job and you can even lap the seats yourself with valve grinding compound and a suction cup on a stick. That would the very budget rebuild way but far from a performance rebuild. You won't need new valves either way, they will cut your old ones to match the new seat or just let them alone if you just lap em.

I'm pretty sure The DOHC MLS do work but I can't say personally. 3sx has Mitsu OEM MLS for $62ea. I just slapped those felpro's you have pictured on my car a few weeks ago and they seem to be fine so far. They list for $18ea or so.

[RoadWarrior222]

Bear in mind that chrome rings need a coarser hone than moly faced rings.

[turbovanman²]

If the bearings are not marked, then you can reuse, I do it all the time,

I've noticed 3.0L tend to pit up the deck surface, so I would get it decked and cleaned, then you can hone it and put it back together. I would also do cam seals unless you did them before.

Your list otherwise is ok.

[Sundance 6g72]

the felpro top end kit will be used. it has all the top end gaskets. very complete



im such a little girl! decided im not getting a second block.. i dont have any reason to just not rebuild this motor. save the $125. it would be nice to have two motors but im not driving anyways.

ill keep you guys posted on my progress. if i can, i will pull the motor tonight