To hone or not to hone....

[altered7151]

I know this arguement has been brought up before, but figured I'd bring the info over here. Seems people have different opinions on what to do on a re-ring. Some say they've had troubles getting rings to seat if re-honed, especially with moly rings. Others have stated they re-ringed with no honing and had no sealing problems. Would like to hear success/failure stories and what was done, rings used, honed or not, type of hone, with torque plate or without.

[BadAssPerformance]

Moly rings just take longer to seat period... heard up to 2k miles before.

[mo' parts]

i had replaced a piston with no hone, and used a set of used piston/rings from another motor(they had about 1500 miles on them) and had no sealing problems. had 145 psi on it at startup, put a good 15-1600 miles on it that way before the oil pump took a dump

the last motor i built was bored/honed at the machine shop, using a torque plate, installed a set of wiseco w/moly rings and pulled 150psi on all 4 before inital startup.

i also had a set of moly rings/venoilas on my first motor (fresh bore/hone, no torque plate)take about 200 miles to seat, was 115-120 and eventually came up to 145.
both of those motors are still running quite well to this day

[Tony Hanna]

FWIW, I have never replaced a set of rings without running a hone through the cylinders. According to all the information I've read on the subject, a fresh crosshatch is necessary for the new rings to seat in properly.
The last engine I did, I used Federal Mogal moly rings in combination with a re-hone with a 3 stone hone w/coarse stones. I then followed the break-in guidelines here. I had no problems with smoking or excessive blow-by. I did a compression test after break-in, but it's been long enough ago that I've forgotten the results. I do remember that the balance between cylinders was really even.
HTH,

[altered7151]

Well I'm leaning towards a hone without a torque plate (since no-one withing a 300 mile radius has one), and moly rings. I've always used moly rings in race car engines where the motor was assembled, warmed up, then made at least a half track pass, so it was ran hard off the trailer. Never had problems with them seating, so the link tonyz2897 posted makes alot of sense. I know the cast rings seat quicker, but are more brittle.

[Tony Hanna]

FWIW, I think a torque plate is more of an issue for doing an overbore than just a hone. I think the idea is to simulate any stress/deformation that would occur with the head bolted on. I could see the benefit of this when doing an oversize bore, but I'd think the effect of a hone with a torque plate vs. one without would be minimal since the idea of the hone is just to finish the cylinder so the rings seat properly and not to remove alot of material.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

[altered7151]

FWIW, I think a torque plate is more of an issue for doing an overbore than just a hone. I think the idea is to simulate any stress/deformation that would occur with the head bolted on. I could see the benefit of this when doing an oversize bore, but I'd think the effect of a hone with a torque plate vs. one without would be minimal since the idea of the hone is just to finish the cylinder so the rings seat properly and not to remove alot of material.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

I think that a torque plate on a hone job would really only make a difference if you are trying to squeeze every last possible drop of power out of the motor. I'm not really going all out, just a good strong street motor, so it wouldnt' be an issue I would think.

[87csx2.4]

Ive always just ran a ball hone 8 to 10 times followed with a super finish hone 3 to 4 runs which makes the rings seat instantly.But just a ball hone works great.Ive never had a ring seating problem,provided the bore is fairly straight.

[altered7151]

Ive always just ran a ball hone 8 to 10 times followed with a super finish hone 3 to 4 runs which makes the rings seat instantly.But just a ball hone works great.Ive never had a ring seating problem,provided the bore is fairly straight.

What rings did you use, moly or cast?

[MiniMopar]

IMO, you should always hone for new rings and try to get a close-to-stock cross hatch if you can. If the bores are oval, no amount of honing or not honing will get them to seat.

[GLHS0658]

FWIW, I think a torque plate is more of an issue for doing an overbore than just a hone. I think the idea is to simulate any stress/deformation that would occur with the head bolted on. I could see the benefit of this when doing an oversize bore, but I'd think the effect of a hone with a torque plate vs. one without would be minimal since the idea of the hone is just to finish the cylinder so the rings seat properly and not to remove alot of material.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct. Do NOT use a torque plate if you are saying with the stock bore. A torque plate is installed in the final honing process. Usually the block is bored first then finish honed (2 different machines). The torque plate is installed with the last .003-.005 to go. The finishing stone (grit) is matched to whatever rings you use. Cast rings would use a courser grit than Chrome moly rings.

If you are staying with your current bore size, I would use a ball hone. They are also available in different grits/finishes.

Mike

[87csx2.4]

What rings did you use, moly or cast?

Ive used both they both seem to work equally well.

[turbovanman²]

I know Ken and others have never honed and never had an issue. I have also read in a few speed mags, IE Hot Rod, Car Craft that some manufacterers are leaning towards no hone. I haven't had the balls to try it yet.

I only use ball hones now if doing an in car rering. Got bit once using the 3 bar/finger type, cast rings never seated and had to redo it. Never had a ball hone job never seat, even with moly rings.

My current engine, torque plate, Total Seal rings, broken in like I stole it, 1-2%leakdown and 150 cranking. I might check it again this weekend, I have put 5000 hard KM's on it since I last checked it, and that was at 1000 km's. I was having oil blown out of my crankcase vent so TS told me to limit the size of my vent-I did that and then realized my PCV was leaking boost. So now, its been good for a week or so and no oil in the pcv line.

[GLHSKEN]

Moly rings just take longer to seat period... heard up to 2k miles before.

When replacing a piston or 2, I never hone... If I can see the factory cross hatch, good to go. And I've had great luck with seating moly rings in instantly. Of course, I hammer the engine from the get go...

[R/T]

I've been using the Speed Pro rings, and hone with a 3 stone unit.

I think it's a good idea to deglaze the cylender walls while the motor is apart.

All is well on the 2 engines I did this to.....

[altered7151]

What size ball-hone did you guys use? I've always used a 3-stone in the past, but have heard good things about the ball/flex-hone. It shows that the 3.75" is good for bores from 3.125 to 3.75, and the 3.5" is good for 3.00 to 3.5, I figured I'd for for the 3.75" so I can use it on other engines. Just wondering what you guys have had luck with.

[GLHS0658]

3.5" would be the correct size to use. The sides of the balls have the point on them to create the cross hatch pattern. A ball hone to large would not work like it is intended.

Mike

[altered7151]

Makes sense, thanks!

[87csx2.4]

3.5 ball hone is what I use goodson tool sells them for like 40 bucks.

[Turbo Joe]

i use the 3.125-3.750 120 grit ballflex hone. i run cast rings though.
moly likes it smoother 180? i'm always in that engine so replacing
cheaper rings that seat way faster for a car that is drag only is my
route. perfect seal almost instant. make sure you pay close attention
to the crosshatches you make in degrees , it matters! I prefer the
"bottlebrush" over the hardstone cause of the more equal pressure you
have honing. my .02..