raced wrx again, improved but engine gets HOT!

[Mdoe8]

Man i wish you were closer to me! I've had numerous similar issues to this in the past.

Did i miss it? What were your afr's at?

[Ondonti]

MLS is just multiple layers of steel. You can see the layers and pull them apart. I did not use that recently. I don't know about off brands of MLS gaskets.

2nd through 4th runs are hard on the cooling and the intercooler. Things get heatsoaked. The scary thing about cutting the fan is that you need to keep moving or you overheat. I think you can go higher then 210 with the fan though. I would be interested to see a pull with no fan and you compare the logs. I would not worry about frontal area exposed to "clean" air. The front end brings in much more air then the radiator can pass. That is why they put all those aero bits on circuit racers because so much air goes where you don't want it. Stock airdam below the radiator will help a lot. That will prevent air from going under and create a larger pressure differential between the front and rear of the radiator (helping more air move through, like boosting your engine). A fan will also limit things once you start moving at a good pace. 1st gear you never put much load on the motor and you are in that gear such a short time that the fan never does you any good. So if you are over 100mph, your radiator is still acting like its getting 15mph worth of air (if you had no fan) but you are in 4th gear an sitting in 4th gear for a LONG time in FULL boost.

I will go look at some datalogs to see what my coolant temps were with no fan. 180 degree stat right? That gives you more buffer and more time before heatsoak. Means your heater sucks.

[Mdoe8]

Show us a picture of your fan setup. I've had a lot of experience with this in the ls1 rx7 scene, it's pretty easy to have an improper setup. Unless it's stock...then there are a couple of other things to look at.

Air bubbles in cooling system?
AFR?
Water pump?
How thick is the intercooler?
How thick is the stock radiator?
What are the cfm's of the stock fan? (if you need a different electric fan, the taurus fan is amazing)

[Ondonti]

There is just no need for a fan above 15-20mph. Anything above that and it hurts cooling.

Here is the proof. This is with a 195 degree thermostat, and not a bit of temp creep from 1st through 4th gears. No fan. Min temp in the datalog was 197, max was 202. It got to 202 in 3rd gear and then flatlined. This is with more power then is putting you to 290 degree temps. You can see that the faster I go, the better the radiator seems to work even though there is a lot more load on the engine. Road racers are constantly hitting high loads at lower speeds for longer periods. As I said, our radiators are much larger then the 2.2/2.5 turbo radiators and they never have problems.

Remember the timing numbers are missing 12 degrees and this is E85 so it does run cooler. Still, you can see I am not having a problem. This was a hot summer day btw, not a winter night.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Now that I think about it, you're right, putting the wastegate there won't hurt the spool because as you say, it won't open til full boost anyhow.

[Sundance 6g72]

and once it does open, that backpressure is gone

the fan/ rad setup is stock

intercooler is 3inches

coolant is clean, no bubbles and now gunky oil like before when the head gaskets were toast.

afr was jumping around, hit a leanest of 13.1 iirc! this is bad i know but it did spend alot of time in the 10s when i was in 4th gear IIRC.

more info later, its time to go to school.

[Sundance 6g72]

okay i found time sooo ill make a proper response

Show us a picture of your fan setup. I've had a lot of experience with this in the ls1 rx7 scene, it's pretty easy to have an improper setup. Unless it's stock...then there are a couple of other things to look at.

Air bubbles in cooling system?
AFR?
Water pump?
How thick is the intercooler?
How thick is the stock radiator?
What are the cfm's of the stock fan? (if you need a different electric fan, the taurus fan is amazing)

no bubbles. coolant looks good when it comes out. with bad headgaskets it was gross looking after the first startup with fresh coolant

AFR spiked 13.1:1 iirc but it was only for a moment. when deep in 4th i reembmer being in the 10 AFR area.

Stock oem type waterpump. this pump gave me the same temps as the previous one (while N/A)

intercooler is 3inch thick.

stock radiator, not sure how thick. stock fan.

not sure of the cfm but it does GREAT when sitting still. it does what the factory intended and does it well

There is just no need for a fan above 15-20mph. Anything above that and it hurts cooling.

Here is the proof. This is with a 195 degree thermostat, and not a bit of temp creep from 1st through 4th gears. No fan. Min temp in the datalog was 197, max was 202. It got to 202 in 3rd gear and then flatlined. This is with more power then is putting you to 290 degree temps. You can see that the faster I go, the better the radiator seems to work even though there is a lot more load on the engine. Road racers are constantly hitting high loads at lower speeds for longer periods. As I said, our radiators are much larger then the 2.2/2.5 turbo radiators and they never have problems.

Remember the timing numbers are missing 12 degrees and this is E85 so it does run cooler. Still, you can see I am not having a problem. This was a hot summer day btw, not a winter night.

i remember 220-230 when N/A with the fan running 100% of the time. This was in the warm summer night.. and yes, im doing this in the cold with 55 intake temp at full boost!

my t stat is stock and i removed that air damn from the front bumper... i can try and find one to re install. i dont remember why i did it (forever ago) does it really help that much?

---------- Post added at 08:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 AM ----------

the bottom of the intercooler is about level with the radiator.. if not it sits a little lower

[Mdoe8]

Hmmm, i don't think it's your cooling setup. Aside from adding some possible shrouding, it looks perfect as is.

[Sundance 6g72]

idk guys.. i have a feeling i really F***ed up this time. something is telling me headgaskets but its not acting like it was when i really did have blown headgaskets

i checked the front head tq. it was good. didnt bother with the rear head :/

the block is scarying me... i hear a tick. i dont want to say its knock buttttt im worried. it dosnt seem to be rpm dependent but i cant tell if its in the head or block. its not lifter tick, thats for sure.

[nmw2006]

Lots of things can make "ticking" noises...I wouldn't jump to bad conclusions just yet. A compression or leakdown test would be in order to verify the status of the headgaskets. Don't give up hope that easily

[Sundance 6g72]

not giving up, not by a long shot

i can drive the car like i stole it and it seems to be fine. havnt topped it out again in 4th. it dosnt seem to get worse.. dosnt seem to push coolant into the overflow. i could do a leakkdown test but im not sure how thats different from a compression test. maybe someone could enlighten me.

my wideband controller crapped out. its the second one to go bad. first one i sent in and switched to my friends. when it got back, i gave my friend the fixed one and kept his. now his went out... weird. popped the new one in and my gauge works again...

the ticking is best described as sounding like a desil but a little softer. reminds me of my friends jetta. it goes away (or seems to) when cruising but when under light accell then you notice it.

[nmw2006]

Leakdown test is basically the opposite of a compression test. You pressurize the cylinder with air then check the guage after a specified amount of time. Can be much more helpful in determining why you happen to have low compression. Much more accurate also.

LM1 Wideband controller? My first one died after a few weeks but Innovate replaced it no questions asked.

That noise doesn't sound good, but the only motors I've ever heard knock were a 2.0 in a Neon and the 350 that i replaced in a Suburban a while back. Unfortunately those both sounded completely different, so I can't really help you on that one.

[Sundance 6g72]

ive heard a 420a knock. it was much louder and increased with rpm and was heard during cruise

i dont like the noise either but the car drives fine...

wideband is a prosport. thinking i should have went with aem.

[Mdoe8]

+1 for compression and leakdown.

Maybe a video of the sound?

[Sundance 6g72]

im scared to do leakdown

lol

ill try and find time tomorrow to get a video of both. not sure if the video will capture the sound from the cabin or under the hood.

i cant think of a noise that the block would make that only is noticable under slight load (not cruise) and during heavy accell you dont hear it but the exhaust is kinda loud soooooo

[Ondonti]

Take the oil filter off and cut it open to inspect the pleats for bearing material. Easy test.

You need to understand how your cooling system works and how aerodynamics affect that. When air has the choice of where to go, it will go in the path of least resistance. You remove the air dam (key word, DAM, what does a DAM do?) and air wants to go under the radiator, under the car. Put the air dam back, air has a harder time going under the radiator and car and you build higher pressure differential in front of the radiator so more air is forced through the radiator instead of taking the easy route.

Plus, that fan does the opposite. If you are forcing air through the radiator faster then your fan can pull air, then your radiator fan is actually working to prevent air from traveling because the fan only wants to spin a certain RPM.

You may have something wrong with the engine but its possible overheating can damage your headgaskets, and that would be the fault of your cooling system. Overheating is not always caused by bad heagaskets but bad headgaskets tend to happen with serious overheats.

Fix the fan issue, take apart the oil fiter, do a leakdown. Nothing too scary. My car is down over much stupider things but at least I can blame boost for blowing my intake manifold.

I pulled apart the Duster's bottom end in Bansheenut's driveway once and drove it home the next day after finding no problems. It was a darn exhaust leak in that instance.

[Sundance 6g72]

todays to do list

go to school

when leaving school, stop at my old high school and weld up my WG

when leaving school stop at junkyard. hagle with owner for cheep motor and then go pull an air dam



i dont think my noise is an exhuast leak. also, if i find the block is damaged.. not much i can do but park the car or just keep driving. my check thats coming tomorrow i wont even need so ill use that to pick up a new motor and try and get something done with that. port the lower intake. refresh the heads and actaully give them new seals this time

maybe 3.3 springs and ls stuff.


anyways, once i get home, ill wire my fan to my fidle output in my relay box. this will make controlling the fan easy.

[Sundance 6g72]

grabbed a air dam. or what i guess could be considered an air dam. its the same piece that i pulled of my car 2 years ago for no reason that i can remember. who knows

it bolts down here.. not sure how it will fit correctly after the fmic install



should be alright now that i look at it. ill get it on tomorrow


got a good deal for a motor too. hope to pull it later this week if i can find the time. i have this next week off of school so that makes it perfect. might actually pull it tomorrow as i work at 12 instead of 5.

[Ondonti]

Imperfect fit is better then nothing. Wish there was a yard here in Seattle where i could haggle. I loved making up my own offers for parts!

[Irocelectric93]

Joe you def want that air dam. I can also say that I will fit on there even with your intercooler setup. No big deal there. As for WB issues....get an Innovate and call it a day. I'm not a fan of AEM stuff to be honest ...not really a bad product but i just like Innovates stuff better personally. My Mtx-l in my SRT-4 is great. I know brent had problems with his but i got lucky and had zero. My LC-1 is super awesome too. Both are good choices IMO.