raced wrx again, improved but engine gets HOT!

[Sundance 6g72]

so ill start by saying that my way to laggy turbo that shouldnt be laggy pulled me past the wrx that usually beats me by a little bit

3rd gear slowely builds 8-9psi (i mean slowely, its weird. im going to figre that out when the open dump is installed)

4th should have did like 10 but i wasnt abel to log (again!)

anyways, i pulled past him twice while in 4th and was keeping with him neck and neck before then. I know for a fact if i had my 8psi before 4500rpms (maybe like 3500 for once!) that i would be past him faster than i am. we have both runs on video but i have to get them from my friend.


ANYWAYS. we did a log on the way home. 2nd - 4th and the motor gets hot. at one pount coolant temp got to 290ish. I either A) boiled the coolant and caused it to push past the cap or B) have bad headgaskets again and forced coolant out the cap

im going with A because my reserve isnt full like it used to be when i pushed coolant out all over due to bad headgaskets. this is the first time its happend too.. not anything new either just 10-11psi max. ive pushed the car harder than this before. tomorrow ill know how much coolant i actually lost. the gauge on my cluster has movement to it while cruising but not ALOT like it used to with bad headgaskets while N/A. it just swings a little bit and very slowely. \

im wondering if there is a easy junkyard swap that would be better for the car. i guess ill go aftermarket if i have too. Im wondering what Brent's junkyard ran for cooling...


good turnout tonight. usually no cars come around here

some bmw setup for autox, golf turbo, wrx @ 19-20psi (one i ran with) and some other wrx that needs a tune bad and runs like crap (from what i hear), my car, some k20 civic, and my buddies 2.4 neon turbo but he had to leave early so didnt run him. there was also a silver wrx that moved pretty damn good.

[turbovanman²]

Nice.

What size is your turbo again? What exhaust?

[Ondonti]

For me, when coolant splatters out the overflow side dump, its the headgasket. I never got around to logging long racing runs like that. Never seen a hot OEM gauge when the motor was happy. Our radiators are quite large compared to the T1 and TII guys and they don't seem to have problems. Do you have a super thin aftermarket one?

I think Ford 5.0's have similar endtanks but not sure they would help unless you went for a pricey aluminum one. I have ruined a few radiators and its usually from myself physically damaging it.
You have said you have been throwing lots of timing at it. Thats how you push coolant. Better to push coolant then to hurt a piston. I had a bunch of fun pushing coolant, put steel rings in the headgasket, then the pistons broke. Should have toned things down.

What is your T stat? What % of coolant? I always ran 100% water and sometimes water wetter. Boils over very easily on 100% water if you stop moving and your fan is off but cools better.

[TainterRacing]

It does sound like a headgasket is leaking. Having it not tuned right will add alot of heat as well. Did you every re Tq the head gasket after you put it on. I know they say its not neeedd but I would still do It might just be the turn making it hot. At WOT I would try to run it like 12:1 and see if that cools it off at all and pull alot of timming just to see if it makes any change in the temps at all.

[Sundance 6g72]

Nice.

What size is your turbo again? What exhaust?

no idea man

http://www.thedsmgraveyard.com/produ...trb-t3t4-v.htm

2.5inch downpipe with 3inch open exhaust. i dont think its the cause for the laggyness. lets just say im scared to do a boost leak test

For me, when coolant splatters out the overflow side dump, its the headgasket. I never got around to logging long racing runs like that. Never seen a hot OEM gauge when the motor was happy. Our radiators are quite large compared to the T1 and TII guys and they don't seem to have problems. Do you have a super thin aftermarket one?

I think Ford 5.0's have similar endtanks but not sure they would help unless you went for a pricey aluminum one. I have ruined a few radiators and its usually from myself physically damaging it.
You have said you have been throwing lots of timing at it. Thats how you push coolant. Better to push coolant then to hurt a piston. I had a bunch of fun pushing coolant, put steel rings in the headgasket, then the pistons broke. Should have toned things down.

What is your T stat? What % of coolant? I always ran 100% water and sometimes water wetter. Boils over very easily on 100% water if you stop moving and your fan is off but cools better.

its the stock radiator with the fan running 100% of the time!

idk my mix.. it should be close to 50/50 but either way 290 seems hot to me.

before with bad headgaskets i would be boosting and then pop the hood. the reserve would be 100% full with coolant EVERYWHERE. Now its just spurting past the cap and its the first time its done that to my knowledge with these new headgaskets.

i did add timing to it but the max it will see at 8psi would be 33* iirc. dr shred on the other site runs 10-12psi and hes on the stock dizzy retarded 2* im pretty sure. so whats that? 36* at 10psi? more than im running.

It does sound like a headgasket is leaking. Having it not tuned right will add alot of heat as well. Did you every re Tq the head gasket after you put it on. I know they say its not neeedd but I would still do It might just be the turn making it hot. At WOT I would try to run it like 12:1 and see if that cools it off at all and pull alot of timming just to see if it makes any change in the temps at all.

i did not re tq.... i know i should have. can only help right? ill try that before running boost again. I also still have to check how much i actually lost.

the tune is pretty rich but it did hit 13.0:1 a couple times... not for long but i did see it flash on the WB.

[TainterRacing]

Do you know what your intake temps are under boost?

[Sundance 6g72]

max of 55* f AFTER the fact

sense my passenger knocked the usb out of the laptop, it didnt log the race. when we were done i did a 2nd - 4th pull WOT until 120. max intake temp was 55f.

i just checked out my reserve.. it wasnt full. it was about half way.. i think it had a little more water than i had put in it in the first place

the radiator took 17oz water bottle and a third of a gallon coolant. ouch.

i have a buddy coming to drop off a TQ wrench but im afraid i wont be able to check until after school on monday at noon. Is it okay to drive the car do you guys think?

also, to re TQ.. do i check if each is at 95 and then back them off 1/4 turn and then back to 95? doing them one at a time?

also, should the motor be warmed up to temp before i re tq them?

---------- Post added at 11:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------

i really worried that these new headgaskets are spent.

ill post a picture of my timing table in a min

[Sundance 6g72]

i guess i can pull a degree or two just to be safe but i dont think thats the problem unless im missing something about the guys who ran oem timing with boost.

Brent, i know you popped motors with OE timing but you were always running twice as much boost just about.

that table is aggressive compared to what i was running before.




this is what i was planning on running.. and i think i will go this route





ignore out of boost timing

so i was running 5 more degreese on ave. more than my old table that didnt push coolant.

[TainterRacing]

The way I did mine was just make sure they where all at the right TQ I had 2 on each head that were a bit lose the middle cly ones. I have in the past also done like you said. I would do it warm as well.

[Sundance 6g72]

the first time around went like this (ill explain in baby terms so we are all on the same track)

* i followed the manuals pattern for tightening the heads *

TQ all to 35, then 50, 70, 80, 90 (i didnt do 95 like stated above ^ ^ , i followed brent's picture)




after following that pattern. i would go in order again. I would loosen the first bolt by 1/4 turn. then Tq to 90. did this for the rest of the bolts in that order.


ill warm the car up and do the 1/4 turn and re tq to 90 thing when i get a chance (most likely tomorrow around noon) but i need the car to get to school. i hope thats safe to drive

pulled a few degrees across the board.

[Sundance 6g72]

car filled with coolant, starts up nicely and idles great. Warms up and sits at 180 - 190 like usual. fan is going 100% of the time though. i get nice heat and somewhat bled the system. i made sure to fill the reserve the "min" mark so i have something to go off of if this happens again

new timing map is loaded and ill have a TQ wrench later today. depending on if plans with the girl go through or not wil determine if i check the heads tonight or tomorrow after class.

[Force Fed Mopar]

You really need to fix your exhaust up properly, get rid of that capped-off rear manifold. If you haven't already, haven't kept up with your project lately.

[Sundance 6g72]

while i agree, how would that be relivent to this issue?

also, what would you think about an open dump wastegate being on the cap that is blocked the rear manifold? im going to try this as it would be supppper easy. plans for a custom rear manifold can happen but not anytime soon.

[Force Fed Mopar]

I think it'd be a horrible idea. The exhaust from there is already having a hard time getting to the turbo, put a dump there and it will want to go to the turbo even less. I think it has a whole lot to do with your slow spool and your temp issues. If the exhaust doesn't flow well to the turbo, it won't spool right. It will also create back pressure, which could be part of the overheating issue.

Have you check into using Montero or Mighty Max/D50 manifolds? Might be the cheaper/easier way to go for manifolds.

[TainterRacing]

I dont think it'd be a horrible idea. Is it going to help with spool up no. But when its open you want the air to go out the wastegate if its open you dont want more pressure on the turbo. Back pressure will make alot of heat yes. But putting a ex dump on it will not have much back pressure at all. I would slap it on there and see what it does. If it doesn't work, don't worry you did not mess with the manifold and would be ez to remove.

montero manifolds have the exhaust exiting about 45* angle towards the transmission.

[Sundance 6g72]

my biggest thing is wondering how the dump is going to be able to stay open just enough to limit boost and not work TOO GOOD and keep boost to low. but lets not talk about that

if you think my rear manifold causes temp issues due to backpressure, i cant disagree with you.

[TainterRacing]

What spring does the wastegate have?

[Sundance 6g72]

8psi, i plan on using my mbc to get 11-12

[Ondonti]

Your wastegate idea will work fine. The turbo won't get any less laggy but you will have much better boost control which will give you safety and less worries. Spooling sooner is cool but it will actually make it easier to pop your motor. If you have boost creep, you will never have a problem keeping your turbo spooled. Wastegates only release enough exhaust to maintain boost level.

I would try a switch on your radiator fan. I don't run a fan unless I come to a stop (instead of running it all the time, thats why it likes to boil over with 100% coolant when I come to a stop and don't turn the fan on soon enough.

Make a run without radiator fan on. I don't even use a fan when driving around 25mph side streets.
I would not run leaner, I would not retard timing if its safe. No reason to be overheating from proper timing. I don't really know what headgaskets you used. If the motor is happy then i would look at your cooling system and also the aerodynamics of your front end. Try an air damn under the radiator so air had to go through the radiator instead of under. That fan being on makes that worse.

I only run the switch on radiator fan because I dont have my ms box setup to run a fan relay.

[Sundance 6g72]

ill try undoing the fan

the fmic is in the way. the only direct shot of air is from where the grill used to be (i didnt bother putting the grill back on)

the wastegate being where im going to put it will relave lots of backpressure once i hit full boost. my overheating problem happens well into the pull so if thats directly effecting things, i should notice a difference.

i never had this problem without boost...

i need to not be lazy and just hook the fan up to my fidle output that im not using. its already ran to my relay box and ready to be wired into a relay that could run my fan. have it kick on at 200*f (i rarely hit 200 unless im sitting still. likes to cruise at 185-190)

the fan probably is a restriction while the car is moving. Im just glad (and mayb ei shouldnt be) that the radiator *shouldnt* be my problem. though id rather upgrade a radiator than pop the motor


the headgaskets i used should be the same as the ones you ran on the spirit. i assumed they were MLS because they felt like it? ive never held a real mls so i had no reason to think otherwise.