Electric water pump

[ShelGame]

I designed a bracket to be used with the Moroso (and others) electric water pump conversion kit. The kit comes with a bracket, but it's designed to fit many V8's and really just does NOT work on our water pump.

It's not a difficult bracket to fab up with a drill press and bandsaw, but it would be so much nicer done with a CNC/waterjet/laser. So, I'm looking to get these made up in quantity and was wondering how many people would be interested in one (besides me). Personally, I want 2-3 of these.

Here's a pic -

(thanks for the 3D Rich)

And the drawing (if you just want to make your own)-
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24238014/waterpumpbrkt.PDF

Don't know the cost yet, but shouldn't be too steep.

If you don't know the kit I'm talking about, it's this one - http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr.+Gasket/720/4333/10002/-1
Moroso and Jegs also have their own version of the kit. The kit comes with a 21" belt that is just too long for out cars. So I designed this bracket to use an 18.7" belt. Puts the electric motor closer to the water pump. The belt is $5-10 at your local industrial supply (187L050 is the P/N).
The motor is positioned low in between the heater inlet and main inlet to the pump. So, it can be run with an alternator or even A/C if you wanted to run this on the street.
The center hole on the pulley is the correct size for our pumps, and one of the bolt holes lines up. But, of course, we have 3 bolts and the pulley (made for V8's) has 2 different 4-bolt patterns, so the pulley needs to be re-drilled for 2 of the bolts. A fender washer drilled with the 3-bolt pattern would hold it on nicely.

Not sure yet if this will turn into a 'group buy' or not; I just want to see if I'm the only one that wants one of these.

I'm going to mock it up tonight or tomorrow. I'll post pics of the finished setup.

[AZTurbo]

Definitely interested. How thick is the plate? material?

[ShelGame]

3/16" Aluminum is the plan.

[Warren Stramer]

FWIW, I ran a similar home made setup for years, and they work good. You can get the pulleys, motors and belts from McMaster Carr. I only recently switched to a CSR just to lessen under hood clutter.
It worked good on the street too, but I didnt do that much street driving.

[ShelGame]

Mock up looks OK...

[Warren Stramer]

That looks good Rob and it will work, but I think you will need to spin the pump a little faster than what what those pullies will allow. That is what I learned when I made mine. You could get a larger motor drive pulley from McMaster. Of course you can test that ratio first, but just think how fast the stock set-up twirls the pump at say 5000rpm.

[ShelGame]

Actually, I was just shopping for a larger motor pulley. I'm not even sure what size that one is. It just came on the used motor I had laying around.

The one thing I'm still not 100% sure about is the alternator belt. I think it will clear this WP pulley, but it will be close. I won't know for sure until I put it all on an engine. I just ordered 2 alternator belts, also. The stock alt+WP belt is a 4K382 (38.2" long) - I ordered a 4K372 and a 4K362 (1" and 2" shorter, respectively). One of those should work.

[ShelGame]

For the (other) cheap a$$es out there, these motors appear to be exactly the same as the Moroso water pump motor - for about 1/4 the price ($35 for vs $60 for 1 from Jegs/Summit)...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-2-New-Le...item1c17c8edfe

[ShelGame]

That looks good Rob and it will work, but I think you will need to spin the pump a little faster than what what those pullies will allow. That is what I learned when I made mine. You could get a larger motor drive pulley from McMaster. Of course you can test that ratio first, but just think how fast the stock set-up twirls the pump at say 5000rpm.

Out of curiosity, Warren, what pulley sizes did you run?

The stock plastic WP pulley is 32 teeth, and the motor pulley is 12 for a 2.7:1 ratio.

I was thinking I could easily go to a 16 tooth motor pulley to give a 2:1 ratio. From what I've read, the motor only turns 1500 rpm - which seems really slow. That would give the pump speed at less than 600 rpm. Which is even less than idle for the stock pump drive which is slightly over driven. Maybe the ad was wrong and meant the pump turns at 1500 rpm? Even so, 1500 rpm does seem a bit slow. It's only slightly faster than the idle rpm for the pump. With a 2:1 ratio instead, that would go up to 2k rpm.

[Warren Stramer]

Out of curiosity, Warren, what pulley sizes did you run?

The stock plastic WP pulley is 32 teeth, and the motor pulley is 12 for a 2.7:1 ratio.

I was thinking I could easily go to a 16 tooth motor pulley to give a 2:1 ratio. From what I've read, the motor only turns 1500 rpm - which seems really slow. That would give the pump speed at less than 600 rpm. Which is even less than idle for the stock pump drive which is slightly over driven. Maybe the ad was wrong and meant the pump turns at 1500 rpm? Even so, 1500 rpm does seem a bit slow. It's only slightly faster than the idle rpm for the pump. With a 2:1 ratio instead, that would go up to 2k rpm.

I ended up with a 2.5:1 ratio which was barely fast enough, but worked. I didnt have the room to relocate the motor so that I could change pulley and belt sizes, and it was working ok for what I was using the car for, so I just used it that way.
If I was starting from scratch like you are I would speed the pump up to at least 2000 rpm. Also I would find a motor with ball brgs. those motors get very hot.
I had to replace those Cheap electric motors every season. I will say though, I never once lost a belt or had the system fail me.

[shackwrrr]

Need something like this in 12 volt. This one even has a 0-5 volt controller built in.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brushless-24...-/260946832048

[trannybuster]

Didnt someone on here use a universal pump http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CS...s/?prefilter=1 , thought they said a 350 Chebby thermostat housing actually lined up with two of the mounting holes, then they just plumbed it in..?? Not sure if its an easier setup, just differnt..?? IDK..

[moparman76_69]

Didnt someone on here use a universal pump http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CS...s/?prefilter=1 , thought they said a 350 Chebby thermostat housing actually lined up with two of the mounting holes, then they just plumbed it in..?? Not sure if its an easier setup, just differnt..?? IDK..

That would probably be better but it is also 240 bucks. We're all "Do it as cheap as possible" remember?

[trannybuster]

^^Dont know if its better, but it is an alternative and about 80.00 cheaper than the bolt electric pump made for our cars which may or may not be availible, which was my only point...us being cheap bastards is always a given.

[boboli]

I would be interested in the bracket ( as I already have the moroso kit from a previous v8 mustang) but it would be nice to know if the moroso circulates the coolant enough to keep the motor cool since the desert can get really hot in the summer.

[ATaylorRacing]

Back in the 80s I used this for a water pump:
http://www.amazon.com/Jabsco-18660-0.../dp/B000O8FBDE
I happened to notice that the thermostate housing looked like two of the holes would match up to two of the three where the water pump was mounted to the block. I tried it and it worked. A bit of sealant, and I bolted it up where the WP had been. It was easy to find hose that fitted on the housing and on the electric pump. What was great was the ability to cool the car down in the pits when were were run quickly. I just can't remember how much ET was improved though. Back then that pump was only around $35!

[Keito]

If you remove the water pump housing, won't you have to fab up a bracket to tension the alternator?

[ShelGame]

Back in the 80s I used this for a water pump:
http://www.amazon.com/Jabsco-18660-0.../dp/B000O8FBDE
I happened to notice that the thermostate housing looked like two of the holes would match up to two of the three where the water pump was mounted to the block. I tried it and it worked. A bit of sealant, and I bolted it up where the WP had been. It was easy to find hose that fitted on the housing and on the electric pump. What was great was the ability to cool the car down in the pits when were were run quickly. I just can't remember how much ET was improved though. Back then that pump was only around $35!

That pump is only 6 GPM (380 GPH/60). Seems a little on the low side to me. I would like to see 20GPM in an electric pump. Makes the 55gpm pumps seem like overkill. Though, I have no idea what the stock pump flows at 2k rpm...

[ShelGame]

For the (other) cheap a$$es out there, these motors appear to be exactly the same as the Moroso water pump motor - for about 1/4 the price ($35 for vs $60 for 1 from Jegs/Summit)...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-2-New-Le...item1c17c8edfe

Got these today. They're apparently a size bigger than the Moroso pump. Same design, but won't fit the bracket I drew...

[ATaylorRacing]

That pump is only 6 GPM (380 GPH/60). Seems a little on the low side to me. I would like to see 20GPM in an electric pump. Makes the 55gpm pumps seem like overkill. Though, I have no idea what the stock pump flows at 2k rpm...

That was the smallest one they had back then...and now with bigger ones available from Japsco(sp?). It worked fine on my overly rich carb car. I know that the 2.0 Neon has an internal water pump...wondering if I could just by pass it and leave it in place and use the electric pump to force the coolant past the impeller.