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Thread: 5spd swap 99 caravan

  1. #1
    Mitsu booster
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    5spd swap 99 caravan

    wondering if anyone has ever swapped a 5 spd into a 95 and newer caravan aka a new bodystyle caravan. problems i can think of are.
    cv shafts and mounts??
    pedals and such?
    main problem i can think of would be the crank sensor in the bellhousing a 543 has no provisin for this and neither does the flywheel
    let me know what u think

  2. #2
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor moparman76_69's Avatar
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    What body style specifically? The 91-95 body style had 5 speeds available at least behind the 4 cyl. Shifter and cables and pedals should be straightforward. I'd assume the 543 would use the same axles as any 5 speed van would. I don't know much about 3.0s so I'm unsure of the crank sensor issue.
    George Manning - "El Presidente" Hoosier SDAC - support the club that supports you.

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  3. #3
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    sorry i guess its 96 and newer. it is a 3.0 with a 4 spd auto. im assuming axles should be ok but i dont know?

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor moparman76_69's Avatar
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    96-up never had a 5 speed option so you'd have to see if either neon or stratus pedals will swap in.
    George Manning - "El Presidente" Hoosier SDAC - support the club that supports you.

    89 Caravan turbo swapped 5 speed - 15.23 @ 92.05 (FWD) - AWD swap in progress
    88 Dakota long bed - 3.9/A999 - earns me $$$
    90 Ram Club Cab - 318/46RH - Grandpa's truck

  5. #5
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    axles should be fine, the problem of what type of speed sensor you have and if it will drop into the extension of a a543. also i think the pedal brakets for a newer caravan will differ significantly from the older ones that had a 5spd. you could always build a stronger a670 3spd using the same beef up parts the guys use in their a413..

  6. #6
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    Not sure what you mean about that belhousing crankshaft sensor...?

    TIII's have a crank sensor friendly flywheel but I don't know if that is the right pattern for the caravan.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    Currently Megasquirt II/Extra. Stock 10:1 3.0 naturally aspirated
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 13.85@108.8 10 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb
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    1981 Starlet KP61 Parts
    1983 Starlet KP61 Parked

  7. #7
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    Biggest issue you will have is finding a way to get the crank sensor to work, that the OBD2 3.0's have, with the A543. The newer 3.0's have their crank position sensor mounted in the bell housing of the A604. The auto flex plate has the pattern for the crank sensor cut into it. The best solution for this, in my opinion, is to have a scaled down replica of the pattern on the flex plate machined into a wheel that can be mounted on the crank pulley. Then you can use the factory crank position sensor with a custom mounting bracket.

    This is the biggest hurdle for people wanting to swap a 5 speed into the cloud cars and for the Sebring / Avenger cars as well (or really any of the obd2 mitsu v6 Chrysler cars that only had the a604 available).

    I thought the 96-00 body style was available with the 2.4 / 5 speed at some point? I might be wrong but the clutch would likely be hydraulic.

    To get this to work , you'd likely end up having to make up three custom motor mount brackets, custom crank position sensor and some sort of way to mount a hydraulic slave cylinder to the A543.

    Not an easy en devour but possible.

    Similar discussion in this thread:
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...543-into/page3

  8. #8
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    do the obd2 cars have the same distributor? maybe it would be cheaper to run a megasquirt or some other standalone and just not use the crank sensor? or use it but on the timing belt side?

    not sure what would be cheaper or easier

  9. #9
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    Quote Originally Posted by Sundance 6g72 View Post
    do the obd2 cars have the same distributor? maybe it would be cheaper to run a megasquirt or some other standalone and just not use the crank sensor? or use it but on the timing belt side?

    not sure what would be cheaper or easier

    Different distributor in the OBD2 cars - they only have one output for a cam sync signal. I'm running an OBD2 dizzy in my car right now so it physically fits in the OBD1 motors but I'm not using any of the electronics in the dizzy.

    With some careful measurement from the auto flex plate, a wheel could be easily drawn up in CAD and taken to a machine shop to make. Saves the hassle of going stand-alone. Some careful drilling of the stock damper might even be able to accomplish this (assuming the flex plate has missing sections as "teeth").

    Just checked - the flex plate does have notches for teeth.


    OBD2 A604 flex plate with crank sensor notches:




    OBD2 3.0 Dizzy:


  10. #10
    turbo addict Dodge Aries K's Avatar
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    Bolt modular clutch to flex plate?

  11. #11
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    ^I don't think that will work...

  12. #12
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    Next issue might be axles. The passenger axle likely doesn't have the teeth cut into it for the speed/distance sensor. The newer A604 cars/vans use the output speed sensor in the A604 for the wheel speed and then the SBEC sends this info to the tachometer. This SBEC isn't setup to read from the traditional speed/distance sensor in the passenger side extension housing.

    The passenger axle may also be a different length and require a custom axle to be machined to fit the A543.

    I haven't held the parts in my hands but from doing some reading the 96-00 passenger axle seems to be significantly longer the a '90 axle that would use the traditional passenger extension housing.

    So, in my opinion, the most likely way to go, assuming you can find a passenger axle that will work and you can find pedals that will work is to convert to OBD1. You will still need to fab 3 motor mounts, your odometer/speedometer will no longer work and you will need to do some serious rewiring.

    Swap would awesome but there are some big hurdles in my opinion. If someone knows something I don't please share

    I looked into swapping an A543 into a cloud car and found the same basic issues.

  13. #13

    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    Quote Originally Posted by 87turbodance View Post
    ^I don't think that will work...
    Why? Modular clutches were designed to bolt where the torque converter would be in an automatic...

    Quote Originally Posted by 87turbodance View Post
    Next issue might be axles. The passenger axle likely doesn't have the teeth cut into it for the speed/distance sensor. The newer A604 cars/vans use the output speed sensor in the A604 for the wheel speed and then the SBEC sends this info to the tachometer. This SBEC isn't setup to read from the traditional speed/distance sensor in the passenger side extension housing.

    The passenger axle may also be a different length and require a custom axle to be machined to fit the A543.

    I haven't held the parts in my hands but from doing some reading the 96-00 passenger axle seems to be significantly longer the a '90 axle that would use the traditional passenger extension housing.

    So, in my opinion, the most likely way to go, assuming you can find a passenger axle that will work and you can find pedals that will work is to convert to OBD1. You will still need to fab 3 motor mounts, your odometer/speedometer will no longer work and you will need to do some serious rewiring.

    Swap would awesome but there are some big hurdles in my opinion. If someone knows something I don't please share

    I looked into swapping an A543 into a cloud car and found the same basic issues.
    The fix for some of this may be as simple as mixing and matching the axle parts. Use the inner joint from an older vehicle and the shaft and outer joint from the newer vehicle... Disassembling an axle is really pretty simple...

  14. #14
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    All the speed data is sent to the gauge cluster over the CCD bus from the SBEC so the OBD2 SBEC need to remain for the gauge cluster to function. The Manual Cloud cars / neon / ect seen to use a traditional speed sensor in the transmission. Perhaps there is a way to use the newer speed speed sensor with the A543?

    Ed, I was thinking something else when thought about modular clutches (BMW stuff) so I was way off. For the axle, if the inner joint is the same then I don't see why it wouldn't work, though, I seem to recall reading somewhere that you couldn't just swap the parts like this. One person went as far as to have a machine ship make a new part of the axle for him.
    Last edited by 87turbodance; 12-12-2011 at 05:32 PM.

  15. #15
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    The best solution for this, in my opinion, is to have a scaled down replica of the pattern on the flex plate machined into a wheel that can be mounted on the crank pulley


    ^thats a 24v sohc app.. but the pattern is the same for the 12v (and for all the chrysler v6s using that engine management) as far as i know.


    The driver's side axle from a 3g van should work fine. The passenger side has some differences due to the extension housing. IIRC a lot of this is covered in 87turbodance's thread he linked (or another of his threads).

    There IS a factory pedal/shifter setup for that body style. It was sold in europe and possibly elsewhere, but not here.

    Bolt modular clutch to flex plate?
    That's a damn good idea! forcefedmopar's minivan thread has pics of a modular clutch setup that will work on an a543 and MAY work on a flexplate with the trigger ring. Gotta eyeball it. http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...pars-VAN/page7

    MINOR little thing: the older flexplates had one of the torque converter holes offset slightly. The newer ones like in a 3g van do not. So to bolt that old modular setup up you would have to slot one of the holes in the flexplate that has the trigger ring. Not a big deal at all.

    The bigger issue is will the modular clutch thing sit INSIDE the trigger ring at all, and if so will it fit FAR enough inside so that the crank sensor can still read the holes in the trigger ring?

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

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  16. #16
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    Transmission thread Vigo is referring to: http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...n-in-a-Stratus

  17. #17
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    ^sweet!

    I think we do a pretty damn good job in this section.. just need more projects to actually get done! (im one to talk )

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

    Got a 1.7 VW-motor 79-82 2-dr L-body for sale? Or want to trade it for one of my cars? PM me.

  18. #18
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 5spd swap 99 caravan

    2000 3.0 Caravan is not as gross sounding to me as some of the older ones. I already feel dated enough in EEK cars when it comes to interior. Axles are definitely not a huge deal. Unless you plan on breaking them you will just need one little custom assembly job.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    Currently Megasquirt II/Extra. Stock 10:1 3.0 naturally aspirated
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 13.85@108.8 10 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb
    1994 Spirit 3.0 A670 - Wife's
    1981 Starlet KP61 Parts
    1983 Starlet KP61 Parked

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