Best ATF+4, Least expensive ATF+4, "Import Fluid" = ATF +3, etc...

[blk86trbo]

MItsucrappy ATF is just Chrysler ATF with a different label.

If all you need is ATF +3. I have tons of Amalie ATF +3 chrysler. $20 for a case of 12

Ugh...I should have bought 3 cases Saturday! It was good to meet you Jason

[RoadWarrior222]

Wait up, what trans are we talking about? I can't believe Simon would be saying to use Dexron in an A604 UD family tranny... or maybe I can.

The skinny as I see it with lockup 3 speeds and torqueflite derived trans is...

Round about '87 or so they brought out the initial 7176 ATF+ and recommended it for all trannies, TF and UD.. this was okay in TFs... however, UDs were still problematic, so they went to +3, which feels okay in TFs but actually lets the TC clutch slip a bit, then +4 came along which is the definitive fluid to keep your UD alive more than a few tens of thousands of miles... but it makes for excessive slip in TFs, you can't even tell you have a lockup..

The issue with changing back from +3 in a TF lockup is that some of that schitt is still in there, and so you get a juddery lock up, because it's trying to halfassed slip. There is no partial lockup, it should not slip at all. You can either bear with it, and change out to regular ATF again to get rid of more +3 so you get a firm lockup, or add lucas transmission fix to clean and firm it up. Or you can go back to the sliptastic +3 and the 10-20% worse gas mileage. This is also why "Type F" is favored in the TFs, gets the lockup more positive.

Personally, I am favoring TDH universal tractor hydraulic fluid in my 3 speed lockup now, with lucas transmission fix for color (And a dose of whatever ATF additives are missin from TDH) which locks up very firm and gives additional mileage gains over ATF. (In my van, 60mph on the highway, TDH/UTF has the motor at a hair over 2600 rpm, regular ATF was around 2800 and the +3 type was near 3000 IIRC, which is pretty much what it is with the lockup unplugged)

[turbovanman²]

Wait up, what trans are we talking about? I can't believe Simon would be saying to use Dexron in an A604 UD family tranny... or maybe I can.

The skinny as I see it with lockup 3 speeds and torqueflite derived trans is...

Round about '87 or so they brought out the initial 7176 ATF+ and recommended it for all trannies, TF and UD.. this was okay in TFs... however, UDs were still problematic, so they went to +3, which feels okay in TFs but actually lets the TC clutch slip a bit, then +4 came along which is the definitive fluid to keep your UD alive more than a few tens of thousands of miles... but it makes for excessive slip in TFs, you can't even tell you have a lockup..

The issue with changing back from +3 in a TF lockup is that some of that schitt is still in there, and so you get a juddery lock up, because it's trying to halfassed slip. There is no partial lockup, it should not slip at all. You can either bear with it, and change out to regular ATF again to get rid of more +3 so you get a firm lockup, or add lucas transmission fix to clean and firm it up. Or you can go back to the sliptastic +3 and the 10-20% worse gas mileage. This is also why "Type F" is favored in the TFs, gets the lockup more positive.

Personally, I am favoring TDH universal tractor hydraulic fluid in my 3 speed lockup now, with lucas transmission fix for color (And a dose of whatever ATF additives are missin from TDH) which locks up very firm and gives additional mileage gains over ATF. (In my van, 60mph on the highway, TDH/UTF has the motor at a hair over 2600 rpm, regular ATF was around 2800 and the +3 type was near 3000 IIRC, which is pretty much what it is with the lockup unplugged)

Read the link, if you quit having those drug induced dreams, you'd remember I posted it earlier,

Yeah, I am sold on Tractor fluid, its the same price as Dexron as a bonus,

[RoadWarrior222]

The tests on the 4L60E look impressive, but that's hardly a "modern" electronic transmission, it's an electronified hydraulic one. A hydraulic transmission is overengineered to handle shock loads. A "fully electronic" designed from the ground up to be electronic transmission, uses optimised engineering to have only just enough material in metal and frictions on the assumption* that the electronics can control every aspect of shifting and clutch application and there will be no shock loads. Thus it also spins less mass and is supposed to be more efficient... however in order to avoid shock, it tends to do controlled slipping, which can make a lot of heat. Hence the "friction modifiers" of which there appear to be two sorts, ones that increase grab, and ones that stop grab but allow linear increase in clutch grip without generating too much heat (i.e. controlled slip).

Now, hydraulic and modified to electronic hydraulics, and lockup hydraulics will actually be fairly happy both ways, either lots of grab, or controlled low heat slip, but will get better mileage and performance on the grab side. In the middle they shudder. The fully electronic ones need the controlled slip, because they can't handle the heat of unmodified fluid slip and they will break something if they grab hard. The fact that they appear to work at all on other fluids probably has more to do with the frictions being already soaked with the right stuff and there being at least 25-33% of it left in the system on a typical change.

Anyway, you can go either way on a 3 speed, commit to slip or commit to grab, on the one side, when you get to higher outputs you'll snap stuff, on the other you'll burn/melt stuff.

On the A604 and relatives, you are committed to controlled slip, back away from that and it's likely to burn or shudder, and the only applications likely to get away with going grabby are those with early PCMs, low torque motors and light bodies.


*Yah, among other things, Chrysler assumed they could have perfect electronic control, only took them 10 years...

[blk86trbo]

Personally, I am favoring TDH universal tractor hydraulic fluid in my 3 speed lockup now, with lucas transmission fix for color (And a dose of whatever ATF additives are missin from TDH) which locks up very firm and gives additional mileage gains over ATF. (In my van, 60mph on the highway, TDH/UTF has the motor at a hair over 2600 rpm, regular ATF was around 2800 and the +3 type was near 3000 IIRC, which is pretty much what it is with the lockup unplugged)

Hey thanks for the info. Let me get this straight, I could safely use this (and a touch of Lucas tranny fix), in an A413 with the lockup T/C?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech...Fluid/16213442

[RoadWarrior222]

Well I'll say "safe" as in about 3 years/30,000 miles it hasn't given issues, so it's kind of in the experimental category still for long term, but it runs nice. There might be some incompatibility with fancy parts like kevlar and teflon according to some of the drag racers who are using it. But haven't come across any issues with any other people running it in trannies that normally take regular ATF.

[stargazer7467]

Dexron is fine in manuals if its designed for it. And Lubegaurd makes the friction modifiers thats being spoke of.

[turbodaytona87]

I've used the Walmart ATF+4 in two vehicles now (a 46RH and a 46RE), both daily drivers. Haven't had any issues with it.

[turbovanman²]

Dexron is fine in manuals if its designed for it. And Lubegaurd makes the friction modifiers thats being spoke of.

I and others would disgree, Dexron is not good oil for metal on metal wear, its bad news, switching to a proper gearbox oil will do wonders for life.

[AngelesRunner]

Have used Wally World ATF+4 in 5 different Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth but they were all A-413 three speed automatics. No problems at all with that transmission. Have to make a comment that Wally is THE most concerned about bad image and press and can buy whatever they want. A product meeting to decide if they will sell something is 1/2 attended by the liability lawyers. They would NOT sell something that would induce liability.