Governor info for the 3 speeds.

[turbovanman²]

Has anyone written down what came stock? I never did and now would like to know, meaning what did the turbo cars get, TBI's, Neon's? large hollow, small solid and what colour spring etc?

Messing around on the weekend and put the hollow little valve in without the Sonnax kit, tired of my fast 2-3 shifts, now it shifts instantly, grrrr, JDIZZ's info says that will result in higher shifts? So maybe he has it backwards?

I am going to hit my trans shop tomorrow and see what they have, this will be good for future reference for anyone that want's to mess around.

[JDIZZ]

A long time ago I played with the governor valves on the A413. I went to the dealer and bought every valve and spring listed. Then installed them in different combinations to try to figure out what each valve did and what effect it had on WOT shift points. I forgot some of what I learned over time. I think I posted most of my findings on the other list as it was before the creation of this list. All that information was through many pulls of the trans pan night after night. The information I posted was accurate.
The two valves worked in concert with each other with one providing shift points for lower road speed. I would have to look at the fluid schematic for the governor again and re-read my old posts to tell you more.


The Sonnex kit changes the governor timing with the included spring.

[JDIZZ]

Here is a copy and past of some of what I wrote in 2004 with a link below to the original post started by you:

05-13-2004, 08:26 PM

Some more governor 101

Here is some info. so you don't wast any time on the things I have. The little valve (primary) controls the shift points, so the heavier the valve the lower the speed the shift points will happen, across the board. The big valve (secondary) controls the higher (road speed) shift points. It does this by feeding some fluid pressure to the back side of the little valve at higher road speeds that counter act the centrifugal force (hold back) on the little valve. So making the big valve lighter or the spring for it heavier, will lower the WOT shift points.

Get the shift points down, then raise the line pressure to get your shift points where you want them. Drill a hole in the case inline with the line pressure screw and tap the hole for a small pipe plug. You now can adjust the shift points from outside of the trans with the line pressure.
__________________
Joe Dzwil
Matawan, NJ
88 Daytona
88 leBaron
87 SC




http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...hift-info.html

[JDIZZ]

Some more copy and past of my old posts:

12-10-2003, 09:59 PM
Build the third clutch pack tight, last one I did was .030 or so. The third clutch pack needs to be tight to keep the 2-3 flair down. Raise the line pressure and to lower the shift points, lighten up the BIG gov. valve and/or increase it's spring pressure. Or you can use a heaver small (primary) gov. valve, but I have found this to make the part throttle shifts happen a little to early for my liking. You can make changes to both gov. valves so the line pressure can be raised, but the stock pressure reg. spring will max out. You will need to look for a stiffer spring (Pep Boys has a nice selection).

[JDIZZ]

And some more:

12-12-2003, 11:50 PM

When you raised the line pressure, the shift points will go up also.
To lower the shift points: make the small governor valve heaver (use the long, solid TBI valve) and /or make the big valve lighter (the hollow one) or the spring on the big valve stiffer (orange spring). I do both, lighter big valve and TBI small valve. Drill/tap and pipe plug a hole in the case that is lined up with the allen headed adjustment for the pressure regulator, so you can adjust the shift points from outside the transmission.
__________________
Joe Dzwil
Matawan, NJ
88 Daytona
88 leBaron
87 SC

---------- Post added at 04:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:06 AM ----------

turbovanman, I hope this helps you.


07-03-2003, 12:08 AM
Re: How do I lower 413 shift points?

Use the big valve (hollow) and spring (orange) from your turbo trans
and find a small valve out of a T.B.I. trans. This is a solid valve,
Chrysler part number 4295955. You don't need the aluminum housing or the big
valve and spring from the T.B.I. trans, just the small (primary) solid valve.
By the way, there are two "small" valves. Without ordering it by part
number, you can tell them apart by the length and the markings. The 955 valve is 1.055 inches long and this makes it slightly longer than all the rest (.035-.036"). It also has a small machined groove in it's tip or
smallest diameter, the material after this groove is what helps make this the heaviest valve. Drill and tap a small hole in the case, inline with the line pressure adjustment screw. This will allow you to adjust the pressure from outside the
trans, and set the full throttle upshift point. Turn the Allen headed screw COUNTERCLOCKWISE to increase pressure.

Hope this helps. This is from someone who "actually messed with this stuff before..."
__________________
Joe Dzwil
Matawan, NJ
88 Daytona
88 leBaron
87 SC

[turbovanman²]

See that doesn't make sense, lol, I have the hollow weight in and it shifts instantly. I have your old posts saved, great info, but for some reason, doesn't jive this time?

I just got a Neon set, not sure SOHC or DOHC but both are solid and the spring is neutral. I know for a fact they rev higher than us and from driving many, have a nice 1-2 and 2-3 shift.

[zin]

Maybe the weights are "sticky", and not moving like they should?

Mike

[turbovanman²]

Maybe the weights are "sticky", and not moving like they should?

Mike

Nope, free as a bird, lol.

Its probably a "simoniz" thing,

[JDIZZ]

Has anyone written down what came stock? I never did and now would like to know, meaning what did the turbo cars get, TBI's, Neon's? large hollow, small solid and what colour spring etc?

Messing around on the weekend and put the hollow little valve in without the Sonnax kit, tired of my fast 2-3 shifts, now it shifts instantly, grrrr, JDIZZ's info says that will result in higher shifts? So maybe he has it backwards?

I am going to hit my trans shop tomorrow and see what they have, this will be good for future reference for anyone that want's to mess around.

grrrr, JDIZZ's info says that will result in higher shifts?

If you reread my posts, the info is for lowering the shift points.
I was writing about lowering the shift points at that time, as we were raising the line pressure which caused the shift points to rise along with it.

---------- Post added at 06:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 PM ----------

The other factors are: Line pressure and throttle pressure.

[Aries_Turbo]

hey Joe, i have a question. those two tubes that feed fluid to the governor.... do they feed some to the governor and then back to the valve body?

could they be controlled with a fluid solenoid?

i dont know how they work, and simon couldnt explain it on the phone so i figured id just ask you.

brian

[JDIZZ]

hey Joe, i have a question. those two tubes that feed fluid to the governor.... do they feed some to the governor and then back to the valve body?

could they be controlled with a fluid solenoid?

i dont know how they work, and simon couldnt explain it on the phone so i figured id just ask you.

brian

One tube feeds line pressure to the governor valve and the other feeds governor pressure back to the valve body (to the back of the 1-2 and 2-3 shift valves and shuttle valve). The solenoid would have to be able to modulate the line pressure from the road speed like the governor valve does.

[turbovanman²]

If you reread my posts, the info is for lowering the shift points.
I was writing about lowering the shift points at that time, as we were raising the line pressure which caused the shift points to rise along with it. The other factors are: Line pressure and throttle pressure.

I might be over reading it but this is what I see.

You put the Sonnax kit it, the spring acts on the little valve thus making it think the little valve is heavier, which makes the shifts faster, so then removing the spring makes the valve lighter again thus raising the shifts. I put a light small valve in and now it shifts instantly so how am doing this wrong?

[JDIZZ]

I might be over reading it but this is what I see.

You put the Sonnax kit it, the spring acts on the little valve thus making it think the little valve is heavier, which makes the shifts faster, so then removing the spring makes the valve lighter again thus raising the shifts. I put a light small valve in and now it shifts instantly so how am doing this wrong?

I think you can tell, I am no fan of the Sonnex governor kit in our application. So I have never had one up close to inspect. What side of the small governor valve does the spring push on? Can you post a picture of one installed on a governor assembly ?

[turbovanman²]

I think you can tell, I am no fan of the Sonnex governor kit in our application. So I have never had one up close to inspect. What side of the small governor valve does the spring push on? Can you post a picture of one installed on a governor assembly ?

I liked it, they work but the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts are too fast, I fixed the 1-2 shift by lightening the small valve by 20 oz, it would shift at 40 km/h, a tad high but better than before but could never fix the 2-3 shift.

The spring goes on the backside, so it push's the little valve in. They give 2 springs, one softer than the other.

I am just putting the Neon weights and springs in, as I love the Neon shift timing.

This is what I ran to get 6500 shift and decent 1-2 shift with the Sonnax light spring, a 1/16 bleed hole ala Chad K. Large valve lightened to 90 oz's, with Neon spring, small weight lightened by me to 50 oz's and oe line pressure adjuster backed almost off.

The other day, large 90 weight, same spring, 70 small weight, then I turned the line pressure up, a slight change not worth reporting about, lol.

Today, trying the Neon set, 140 large, matching spring and 90 small. See how that goes in another 30 mins.

This is the sonnax kit-

http://www.sonnax.com/system/announcement/32204-03K.pdf

[JDIZZ]

I might be over reading it but this is what I see.

You put the Sonnax kit it, the spring acts on the little valve thus making it think the little valve is heavier, which makes the shifts faster, so then removing the spring makes the valve lighter again thus raising the shifts. I put a light small valve in and now it shifts instantly so how am doing this wrong?

No, (In the terms you used above) The spring acts on the little valve and makes it think the little valve is lighter.



I looked at the picture in the Sonnax link. The direction of the small spring pushing on the valve is the same as using a lighter valve.

From the Sonnax link:
Features & Benefits
• The use of this governor bracket and return spring will slightly increase shift timing.

A lighter "small" governor valve will raise the shift points. A heaver small governor valve will lower the shift points.

[turbovanman²]

No, (In the terms you used above) The spring acts on the little valve and makes it think the little valve is lighter.



I looked at the picture in the Sonnax link. The direction of the small spring pushing on the valve is the same as using a lighter valve.

From the Sonnax link:
Features & Benefits
• The use of this governor bracket and return spring will slightly increase shift timing.

A lighter "small" governor valve will raise the shift points. A heaver small governor valve will lower the shift points.

But that's not what happens, putting the Sonnax kit in makes the shifts happen quicker, that's the shitty side effect. I've put it in a few transmissions and they all act the same, so its not just my van.

Anyhow, something else must be wrong, put the Neon stuff in tonight, ZERO change, getting extremely pissed off with this van right now,

[JDIZZ]

But that's not what happens, putting the Sonnax kit in makes the shifts happen quicker, that's the shitty side effect. I've put it in a few transmissions and they all act the same, so its not just my van.

Anyhow, something else must be wrong, put the Neon stuff in tonight, ZERO change, getting extremely pissed off with this van right now,

Is it only the 1-2 shift? If so, maybe start looking at the 1-2 shift valve and spring along with the 1-2 governor plug.

[turbovanman²]

Is it only the 1-2 shift? If so, maybe start looking at the 1-2 shift valve and spring along with the 1-2 governor plug.

Nope, it shifts 1-2-3 instantly. I checked the kickdown cable, still properly adjusted. I turned the line pressure up, slight difference.

I am just about to check the line pressure.

[JDIZZ]

Nope, it shifts 1-2-3 instantly. I checked the kickdown cable, still properly adjusted. I turned the line pressure up, slight difference.

I am just about to check the line pressure.

While your checking line pressure, check the throttle pressure too by pulling the cable.

---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 PM ----------

Nope, it shifts 1-2-3 instantly. I checked the kickdown cable, still properly adjusted. I turned the line pressure up, slight difference.

I am just about to check the line pressure.

You can check the Governor pressure also, there is a plug on the right side below the differential cover.

[turbovanman²]

While your checking line pressure, check the throttle pressure too by pulling the cable.

---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 PM ----------





You can check the Governor pressure also, there is a plug on the right side below the differential cover.

I'll check that first, I have the oil cooler fitting right across the fitting i need for line pressure,