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Thread: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

  1. #41
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    Quote Originally Posted by MC#4 View Post
    Im pretty sure It cost him $500-$600 to have one made. I have had things cut on CNC before and the price was always reasonable. Its just a piece of aluminum with some holes cut, very simple design really.
    Shouldn't it be made of steel?


    Quote Originally Posted by bakes View Post
    I kind disagree here , because the chances of popping a piston here are going to take out the motor. I believe in the do it right pay less later.
    4 bangers are a sorta ok to redo, can't imagine doing a 3.0L over and over and over again,
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  2. #42
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    Shouldn't it be made of steel?

    We have aluminum heads, so the plate should be aluminum. If we had iron heads then you would want an iron plate.

  3. #43
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    Quote Originally Posted by MC#4 View Post
    We have aluminum heads, so the plate should be aluminum. If we had iron heads then you would want an iron plate.
    Ok, I just figured they'd use steel on everything, lol.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  4. #44
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    My current problems have been using some 190,000 mile used heads on a race car then putting them on my daily and hoping for the best with no reconditioning. I had no money when I made those decisions. Now I have no time to make up for decisions I had with more time and no money. I think I would rather have a happy cylinder head then worry about pistons. I am not very scared of breaking pistons with the proper gap and with the Chrome ring upgrade I am not worried about the upper rings relaxing or whatever else scares Ed about stock rings. Yes forged pistons can take a beating in a 3.0, but can also avoid making obvious mistakes. Forged pistons are expensive and I don't think are necessary for the requirements we are talking about. Invest in setting up your oem rering or new Oem style pistons well and it will benefit you. I think i prefer the 10:1 pistons because they have proven themselves crazy strong with regapped rings. I have not actually beaten to crap these 8.9 regapped pistons because...I don't want to find out what breaks first on my daily. I have done a lot of break it research and its not fun on your driver. I do know you can go very fast on a bone stock shortblock and changing the ring gaps would increase reliability a lot.

    I don't believe in torque plates for a 6g7x but there is a shop near Seattle that has one from what I have researched. Aluminum would make sense but not everyone does things right the right way.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  5. #45

    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    The issue is heat destroying the temper in the stock rings... For mild boost, this is probably not an issue.

    On the torque plate. I think it is probably "helpful", but not like it is for certain older engines. Somewhere I saw a picture of an engine where you could see the outline of some of the head bolts in the cylinder wall after usage... That is a case where there was definitely cylinder wall distortion when the head was bolted on...

    Now if you want to get real exact, you need to get the block up to operating temperature when the honing is done!

    Ed Kelly - www.kmperformance.com

  6. #46
    turbo addict Murphy's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    cams certainly make a huge difference. I have the diamante cams and they are a big upgrade over stock. They move the powerband up so power increases up top instead of the down low torque hump and then blah power up top. I'm in a heavy full weight spirit and I've run a 15.0@91 N/A with only bolt ons, no porting. I have a 50 shot on the car and did a best of 14.5@96 with that.

    this is a good build to check out by Josh Simon RIP. 93 sundance, gutted, all N/A ran a best of 14.2@97 with no traction. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/693477...mouth-sundance
    95 spirit 3.0/543 15.0@91 N/A, 14.5@96 on a 50 shot RIP 87 shelby Z - project car, maybe I can drive it this year 91 spirit - roll it, chop the top, do some burnouts! RIP

  7. #47
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    Well in light of all the posts here and some thinking. I have decided to scrap the turbo idea for now. I have decided that driveability and reliability outwiegh the benefits of a turbo for now. I realized that I much prefer to actually drive the car instead of it being down all the time. My stealth has been down about 6 of the 7 weeks Ive owned it and Im to the point that I hate looking at that car. A turbo is still a good possibility in the future when I get the need for speed.

    The good news is I have a much more realistic and more attainable goal. Eaiser on the wallet too!

    Here's a rough outline of my new plans.

    Engine

    Still getting a full rebuild, balanced and blueprinted, file fit rings.
    10:1 pistons (cast)
    5 angle valve job
    Cam regrinds (maybe using the cam card from rick loziers/reaper1's daytona)
    MLS headgasket
    75-100hp shot of Nitrous
    Mild port and polish on heads
    Ported intake upper and lower
    58mm throttle body ported (have this not installed yet)
    Custom tube headers, custom 3" after headers.
    CAI (have this not installed yet)
    MSD coil and wires

    Also still planning on an LSD

    Here's a few questions.

    1. Will headgaskets for a DOHC work? like stealth/3000gt?
    2. Recommendations on piston rings? I have read gap should be bigger with nitrous.
    3. Any valvetrain changes with new cams? Thoughts on just going w/diamante cams?
    4. How to remove rev and speed limiter from stock ECU?

    Let me know what you guys think. Your posts definately have an influence. Thanks for the help so far. Much better than another site I used to frequent.

  8. #48
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    last i checked dohc headgaskets worked. i just got the mls felpro headgaskets from autozone. they look legit but i have yet to use them.. i just ordered them for a sohc 12valve motor though.

    brent likes to do something with the ringgapes to improve reliability.. i havnt paid much attention to that yet though :P

    i would get these valve springs while you have the heads torn apart http://schneidercams.com/6610valvespringset.aspx

    hopefully that link works, verify with ED before you order those. im 99% sure those are the springs he recommended to me. or you could go with 3.3 dodge minivan valve springs with lightweight ls1 locks/retainers. either of those should rev higher than you need too

  9. #49
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    Contact "shelgame" about the rev llmiter, he'll tell you straight up if he can do it or not.

    I wouldn't go 3" exhaust n/a, keep it 2.5" engine back.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  10. #50
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    yeah Ive been pming shelgame back and forth for about an hour. He's up for it.

    As for the 3", I do plan to turbo this car down the road and it'd be nice to be able to reuse most of the exhaust.

  11. #51
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    Contact "shelgame" about the rev llmiter, he'll tell you straight up if he can do it or not.

    I wouldn't go 3" exhaust n/a, keep it 2.5" engine back.
    why no 3inch? i made plenty of power with mine on stock cam and limiter. I was thinking about this earlier though... when exactly does a 2.5inch exhaust become a restriction on a 3.0? the 3inch works but does a 2.5 work slightly better and why?

    upping the limiter and running a bigger cam down the road will require a bigger exhaust by default though

  12. #52
    turbo addict Murphy's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    IIRC....
    Josh had a completely stock 3.0 604 spirit at the track. He did add a 52mm TB. he did a couple passes then cut the exhaust off, there was no difference in time
    95 spirit 3.0/543 15.0@91 N/A, 14.5@96 on a 50 shot RIP 87 shelby Z - project car, maybe I can drive it this year 91 spirit - roll it, chop the top, do some burnouts! RIP

  13. #53
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    not saying your wrong, but did i really make 147hp to the wheels (141 crank hp when stock !) with just intake mods? im sure i needed the 3inch to help with that. i wish i had the time to test each mod though



    if you loose tq with the 3inch, its not much.

  14. #54
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    Quote Originally Posted by MC#4 View Post
    yeah Ive been pming shelgame back and forth for about an hour. He's up for it.

    As for the 3", I do plan to turbo this car down the road and it'd be nice to be able to reuse most of the exhaust.
    That's awesome and good idea, no point spending money twice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sundance 6g72 View Post
    why no 3inch? i made plenty of power with mine on stock cam and limiter. I was thinking about this earlier though... when exactly does a 2.5inch exhaust become a restriction on a 3.0? the 3inch works but does a 2.5 work slightly better and why?

    upping the limiter and running a bigger cam down the road will require a bigger exhaust by default though
    You get to a certain point where if the exhaust is too big, you'll lose down low torque, which for a street driver, can be a big deal. Usually a 2.5 inch system is more than adequate for most engines.

    I guess testing here would be key, but who wants to put a 2.5 inch system on, then try a 3.0 inch system,
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  15. #55
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    Dont be scared to put 150 shot on this motor in N/a form i have heard of a 250 shot run on a N/a 3.0l before .

  16. #56
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    That's awesome and good idea, no point spending money twice.



    You get to a certain point where if the exhaust is too big, you'll lose down low torque, which for a street driver, can be a big deal. Usually a 2.5 inch system is more than adequate for most engines.

    I guess testing here would be key, but who wants to put a 2.5 inch system on, then try a 3.0 inch system,
    i think the reason why 3inch dosnt effect low end noticeably is due to the stock manifolds. Ed replaced the front manifold with a custom header and had to add a crazy amount of fuel DOWN LOW to get back to his desired afr.

  17. #57

    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    Yes the Schneider 6610 are a "drop in" replacement valve spring.

    If you are going to turbo, it is a good idea to open up the gap on the rings. The concern is that the increased heat from the turbo will cause the rings to grow larger and the ends butt and they start distorting and break a ring land. That said, I ran 8psi on a pretty much stock junkyard motor (ie. stock gapped piston rings) and did not have a problem. When I rebuilt the motor (spun bearings) and went to ported heads I did increase the ring gap...

    Ed Kelly - www.kmperformance.com

  18. #58
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    And the reason you spun a bearing was due to booat kickin in way to early with to little oil pressure, right?

  19. #59

    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sundance 6g72 View Post
    And the reason you spun a bearing was due to booat kickin in way to early with to little oil pressure, right?
    Yes. Too small of a turbine combined with too big of a compressor wheel lead to boost very early in the rpm band.

  20. #60
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    Re: 3.0 Build Project: "Green Machine"

    Quote Originally Posted by c2xejk View Post
    Yes. Too small of a turbine combined with too big of a compressor wheel lead to boost very early in the rpm band.
    I find that hard to believe, many engines out there make boost off idle with no issues. Why do you think this? Didn't you say it had 250K on the engine?
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

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