megasquirt + ign timing and how much we should be running ? ?

[Force Fed Mopar]

The psi is -psi, meaning it's vacuum. -9.5psi is like 20inHg, -3.0psi is about 6inHg. The more vacuum you have, the more timing you need.

Although, those are WOT settings. The map advance from part throttle is likely to be a bit higher. So, the timing at idle would actually probably be like 26-28 total maybe? I don't think Rob has got that far in the V6 code yet, but if he had the wot tables, he may have the part-throttle too.

[Sundance 6g72]

well my current idle and cruise timing numbers are close to the edge. i can run 37* at like 16.1afr and be fine (in the current weather.. i think intake air temp above 80f causes the need to richen up to 15.3afr) but anything more than 37* causes the car to "miss" when cruising.

right now i just want to make sure i have the stock timing numbers plus 2-3* (proven hp) so i know im not lacking anything. without a dyno its hard to go off on my own and see if 45* at 5500rpms is actually an improvement. i sweat the car pulled harder in 4th all the way to redline with the timing up at 45* but ed found that when he brought his timing down he made more power on the dyno. then again his car has much more done than most of us so he will have different timing numbers. He actually gos above atmospheric pressure sometimes when WOT.


oo and just realized you have a conquest.. balllin!

[Force Fed Mopar]

Hehe, it'd be even more ballin' if it ran properly Needs a fuel pump.

[Ondonti]

base timing is base timing. Its something that the ecu is not accounting for. Newer mitsu 12 valves don't have adjustable base timing so that is a mod some people do. Same for the DOHC boys. They try to add the early DOHC CAS system because it allows some fooling with timing.

Electronic advance is electronic advance. Anything created by electronic means. Base timing is offsetting the distributor. Your total timing is all factors combined. Base timing would happen even if your ecu provided no advance.

[Sundance 6g72]

okay sooo the question is, do i take the numbers posted earlier and ad 12 (or whatever the dizzy is set to?) in order to find the real ign timing number? It made sense when i added 12 to all the numbers because i got a final timing advance of 38 degrees (assuming 12* base timing)

---------- Post added at 11:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------

i had the intercooler on the car because i wanted too (no turbo) and after actually looking at my datalogs.. it was bogging me down after 4000rpms (you could feel it too)

once i removed it, the car bacame violent per say.. with the timing set like this too.. all the way to 6800rpms.



power is still off after 4200rpms or so due to stock cams, no getting around that. but now it feels right.

im thinking about calling a place in my town (super close to me ! ! ) called "All speed customs" you can google "all speed customs Muskegon Mi" and check it out. they have a dyno i could use. i need to find a price per pull or for an hour. i dont want to spend to much time in there while NA.. finding the best timing at 100kpa wont do me any good later on but maybe i can help someone else out?

[Ondonti]

But, you guys are using different methods to get your distributor "just right."

I don't know how much offset your distributor has to get that particular value you guys are looking for. I just stick with OEM base timing and everything seems to work fine and I know what my total timing is.

Can't you stick a timing light on there and figure it out? Or do you already know what the distributor is set too? Don't add 12 degrees to the table. You have that offset crank setting that allows you to take care of things and I thought you already did it.
I am talking about how to add up OEM timing, and that just happens to be how I have mine set up. You have yours different. I like mine the way it is, its not hard to remember that I have to add my base timing to know my total timing. I might change that in the future but its not a problem. Actually knowing your total timing is not exactly helpful once you run well. At that point you are already close so you don't have to guess and type in numbers. You are adding and subtracting. Knowing the total number is only helpful when sharing your info.

I think you are adding timing too aggressively with rpms. I understand the idea of adding timing as torque starts to plummet at 4500 but you are getting pretty aggressive for probably no gain. If it feels good, then go for it though. N/A ain't gonna get too hurt. Its when you add a little boost.

[Sundance 6g72]

i was under the impression that whatever showed up on my laptop was the actual timing that i was running.

what i did was set the megasquirt to a fixed timing of 10*

then i get out the timing light and check the crank.. lets say it reads 12*. i then adjust the trigger angle ofset until the light reads 10*

i was told that after doing this, i would have the exact numbers showing up on the laptop. no need to add or subtract anything

the current timing feels good. i want to get on the local dyno and do a pull or two to see whats going on.

[ShelGame]

The stock V6 timing is setup a little different from the turbo stuff. But here's the basics:

Cold advance (for when the coolant temp is below ~65F):

CLDMAP + GOVNER

+

Warm P/T Advance (when temp is above ~65F):

HOTMAP + RPMAdj + GOVNER

+ +

For WOT, the MAP portion is gone (I assume because being NA, MAP is essentially 0):

WOTrpm + GOVNER

+

Similar to the turbo cals, the max timing is also SPKLMT:





It's kind of an odd timing arrangement, but it is what it is. This is for the SMEC V6. I think the SBEC and SBECII are very different due to the 3D tables.

[Sundance 6g72]

timing should be close to the same though regardless of ecu.. at least i would think.

am i dumb or do those pictures not tell me any numbers?

thanks though, i appreciate it.

[Force Fed Mopar]

They don't tell you any numbers, you would have to open that cal in Dcal and look at it yourself to see all the numbers. He was just showing what the factory slopes looked like and what tables are used to calculate it.

Also, the base timing you see with the light is not added to the timing in the factory computers. It is simply a sync point.

Not sure if any of that helps you w/ the MS, but from the sound of what you describe MS is the same, you just get the dizzy synced to the engine and then the computer does the rest.

[Ondonti]

The stock V6 timing is setup a little different from the turbo stuff. But here's the basics:

Cold advance (for when the coolant temp is below ~65F):

CLDMAP + GOVNER

+

Warm P/T Advance (when temp is above ~65F):

HOTMAP + RPMAdj + GOVNER

+ +

For WOT, the MAP portion is gone (I assume because being NA, MAP is essentially 0):

WOTrpm + GOVNER

+

Similar to the turbo cals, the max timing is also SPKLMT:





It's kind of an odd timing arrangement, but it is what it is. This is for the SMEC V6. I think the SBEC and SBECII are very different due to the 3D tables.

I am a bit confused as to how these two posts of yours worth together...
Your post on TD seems pretty simple and the # tables make the pictures useful. The post here, I don't understand. Specifically Advance from Warm WOT.
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f11...ml#post2467126

I made a pretty extensive spreadsheet using the info you posted on TD that changes WOT numbers into the lower load numbers based on the WOT/map chart as well as frame by frame plotting my own video datalogging of my DRBII plugged into my 1994 a670 Spirit.
The numbers I have datalogged for 1994 are pretty similar to the 1989 numbers you posted on TD except the "pre dip" has less of a timing peak and the timing comes up much sooner after the dip.

I only have old 3.0 bin files for use in Dcal that I downloaded off one of your sites. They don't have all that goodness you posted.