11" rotors with 54mm calipers

[anarchyjet]

I have a 93 p-body that needs rotors and pads, but calipers are new. Can I get a caliper bracket off a mini with 11" fronts and run the bigger rotors. I know the 60mm calipers with 24mm master is the way to go, but trying to work with what I have. Is there a difference between 11" and 10" pads, if there is, I would imagine I should use the 11" pads.
Thanks,
-AJ-

[Force Fed Mopar]

I think the calipers are different for 10" and 11".

[anarchyjet]

Different in mounting size? I pretty sure all factory 11" brake set ups came with 60mm calipers and 10" was 54mm. During my searches I came across threads that talked about putting 60mm calipers on 10" rotors, so I would think they both have the same mount spacing.

[135sohc]

Yeah you probably found what I posted/asked about. The 'upgrade' is to put the 91-95 (SWB/14" wheels) minivan 60mm/10" rotor calipers onto the car in place of the smaller bore 54mm/10" rotor calipers, bigger caliper for more clamping force on the rotor.

I understand what your asking (I think) and yes the bigger rotor/caliper adapter will as you know bolt right on. But I dont know if the smaller caliper body (10" rotor, regardless of bore size) will bolt onto the bigger adapter bracket and still work properly. The adapter bracket for the bigger rotors has a different mounting offset that positions the caliper further out from the centerline of the rotor/hub/axle so it clears the bigger rotor. I dont know but I would assume the 11" rotor calipers are cast differently to accomodate the difference as well because between the 60mm 10" rotor calipers (aka 'minivan' calipers) and the 60mm 11" rotor calipers they are not the same part numbers.

Best bang for the $ IMO is drop the minivan 60mm calipers on there, bleed the brakes front & rear and put some ceramic pads from a 2nd generation LH car on there. I can lock the damn wheels up without trying

[anarchyjet]

Ok that makes sense. After checking some part numbers on on rockauto the 11" 60mm caliper is a different part number than the 10" 60mm caliper. That info supports what you are saying about the different offsets of the brackets.

[rbryant]

I had always thought that the 60mm caravan calipers were the same on the 10" and 11" setups.

I remember looking over the brackets fairly closely and not noticing a difference. I just checked and the car 10" bracket is the same as the van 10" bracket so they didn't change the brackets when they went from 54mm to 60mm calipers.

Good find that the van calipers are different. The difference is not in the spacing but in the brake pad mounting. The 11" brake pads mount differently than the 10" pad so they needed a different 60mm caliper that would work with the 10" brake pads.


I took a closer look and found that the rotors have the same spacing (which makes sense given that they share a hub and spindle).

Here are the specs for the 10" and 11" rotors:




So it had to be something else...


I am pretty sure it is actually to make the pads fit... The 10" 60mm calipers still use the same brake pads as the 10" 54mm brakes.

When you look at the pad sliders on the 11" calipers you can see that they are different to take the larger brake pads.

10" Car / 10" Van / 11"



Notice that the sliders for the pads are actually different.

So you can have 10" 60mm fronts if you use van calipers but you can't really do 11" 54mm fronts (not that you would want to).

-Rich

[csxtra]

Back from the dead...with a hijack:

Best bang for the $ IMO is drop the minivan 60mm calipers on there, bleed the brakes front & rear and put some ceramic pads from a 2nd generation LH car on there. I can lock the damn wheels up without trying

Just to clarify, are you talking about doing this with the 10" or 11" rotors? This is the first time I've heard about using LH pads on the front of our cars (if I read this correctly). I'm about to switch my CSX to the 91-94 knuckles and I need to keep the 10" brakes to fit inside my Centurians, but if I can get an increase in stopping power from the early 60mm minivan/24mm MC setup I'd love to hear more.

[135sohc]

Stock 10" rotors.
calipers from a 91-95 minivan with 14" wheels (basically only a regular SWB voyager/caravan). These calipers are identical to the original/stock 54mm calipers but with the slightly bigger piston.
24mm master cylinder. spirit R/T, minivan ect.
Wagner ceramic thermoquiet for a 2003 Chrysler Concorde LXI.

On the brake pads they are totally different than the stock type pads in how they mount. Inboard pad clips into the piston, outer pad clips onto the outside of the caliper. In particular our calipers were not designed with the cast in recess for the outboard pad so they just sit there... In a year+ of driving with these pads I have not noticed any issues with their fitment and/or safety since these two different parts were never designed to be matched together.

But thats just opinion and by reading this information and accepting that it is just that... I cannot accept responcibility for any outcomes if someone does this and then crashes their car claiming this brake modification failed on them. -end of legal disclaimer-

Heres a picture of the LH brake pads: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1054249
and the matching caliper: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=522133

I have not tried the LH calipers yet, need to get a set of cores from the yard to test fit first. But just looking at everything I think they would drop right in there and resolve any concerns about how the outer brake pad mounts. There also a 60mm piston iirc so also a plus

[csxtra]

Thanks for the info I may run up to Autozone and pick up a late LH caliper to see how they match up with the earlier ones dimension wise.

And there are more pad options for the late LH cars than there are for the 91-94 10" brakes...sweet!

I'll report back my findings on the LH front calipers.

[turbovanman²]

Back from the dead...with a hijack:



Just to clarify, are you talking about doing this with the 10" or 11" rotors? This is the first time I've heard about using LH pads on the front of our cars (if I read this correctly). I'm about to switch my CSX to the 91-94 knuckles and I need to keep the 10" brakes to fit inside my Centurians, but if I can get an increase in stopping power from the early 60mm minivan/24mm MC setup I'd love to hear more.

Are you sure the 11's won't fit under the Centurions, from all the threads we've had, all the OE FWD Mopar wheels fit the 11" brakes. Some minor clearancing might be needed but nothing too drastic.

[csxtra]

So I went to Autostoned today and picked up a set of reman 60mm 2nd gen LH front calipers, and brought them home to compare to the 10" 54mm calipers I got when I bought my knuckles and see if they will work with the 91-94 10" brackets.

Aside from three differences, they are identical. The first difference is the 54mm vs 60mm pistons (duh!), the second difference is the cutouts for the outboard pad retaining clip that were added to the LH calipers, and the third is the notches for the outboard side of the caliper to tuck behind the caliper bracket are reversed (i.e. on the LH calipers, the notch is on the bottom on the left side of the car and on the top on the right side; the older calipers are opposite - left: top, right: bottom.)

Both styles of caliper bolt right onto the 10" brackets, and all the critical dimensions and contact points with the pads and brackets are the same as far as pad area and location, aside from the differences mentioned above.

And Simon, I tried bolting the 11'' brackets and calipers to my knuckles/hubs and bolting them to my Centurians, but the outer edge of the caliper bracket stuck out at least 1/8" too far, and I didn't want to take off that much metal from the brackets, have to run spacers, or both. Also, I know that the wheels I use for my slicks (Chrysler rallye wheel repros) won't fit over the big brakes...right Jackson? Besides, I can bolt Reeves' 13" slicks on my car if I keep the small brakes and want to try something different.

I still have the 11" calipers and brackets, so if I later decide to get aftermarket wheels and new wheels for my slicks, all I need to get is pads (from Rich) and rotors, bleed the brakes, and be good to go

I'm hoping to line up a track day sometime this year (in the process of doing a bunch of suspension upgrades), and I've got some Severe Duty LH pads (one of the benefits of using LH pads...police Intrepids). I don't want any brake fade-induced pucker factor like I had at SDAC-18.

[135sohc]

Awesome findings on the fitment

[Force Fed Mopar]

Do they fit the 11" brackets?

[csxtra]

Do they fit the 11" brackets?

They might...I just held the 10" bracket up to the 11" calipers/brackets I have, and at first glance the dimensions look similar.

If I get time tonight, I'll take the 11" calipers off of the brackets and see if the LH calipers will fit onto the 11" brackets.

[turbovanman²]

Good info, thanks,

[BIGBRUDDA]

Dis is good stuff guyz! One of yuz gonna distill it and post it to the knowledge center?

[rbryant]

They might...I just held the 10" bracket up to the 11" calipers/brackets I have, and at first glance the dimensions look similar.

If I get time tonight, I'll take the 11" calipers off of the brackets and see if the LH calipers will fit onto the 11" brackets.

It won't work with 11" brackets and 10" pads on 10" discs.

The 11" brackets are spaced to clear the OD of an 11" rotor and the 10" ones are tight to 10".

The 10" and 11" brackets look very close when you eyeball them but they are not the same.


Now if you were to use 11" brackets, 10" pads and 10" minivan calipers that might "work" but the pad would be smaller than the 11" pad and not align with the OD of the 11" rotor which would probably make it squeal more...

-Rich

[Force Fed Mopar]

It won't work with 11" brackets and 10" pads on 10" discs.

The 11" brackets are spaced to clear the OD of an 11" rotor and the 10" ones are tight to 10".

The 10" and 11" brackets look very close when you eyeball them but they are not the same.


Now if you were to use 11" brackets, 10" pads and 10" minivan calipers that might "work" but the pad would be smaller than the 11" pad and not align with the OD of the 11" rotor which would probably make it squeal more...

-Rich

So you don't think the LH calipers will work on an 11" setup?

[rbryant]

So you don't think the LH calipers will work on an 11" setup?

Oops I missed the LH part...

My statement was meant to be that 10" 60mm caravan calipers won't work with the 11" stuff.



The LH on the other hand could work with the 11" stuff (and I think I heard once that it does). If LH calipers are that close to our normal 11" calipers then my statement is probably still true. I think that they are pretty much bolt on replacements for the 11" 60mm setup. Of course our 11" front setup isn't hard to source so I don't see a real advantage. They use a slightly different brakepad so brake pad pricing might be different.

I think it will run into exactly the same problems with the LH calipers as trying to run 11" calipers on the 10" stuff.

-Rich

[Force Fed Mopar]

Oops I missed the LH part...

My statement was meant to be that 10" 60mm caravan calipers won't work with the 11" stuff.



The LH on the other hand could work with the 11" stuff (and I think I heard once that it does). If LH calipers are that close to our normal 11" calipers then my statement is probably still true. I think that they are pretty much bolt on replacements for the 11" 60mm setup. Of course our 11" front setup isn't hard to source so I don't see a real advantage. They use a slightly different brakepad so brake pad pricing might be different.

I think it will run into exactly the same problems with the LH calipers as trying to run 11" calipers on the 10" stuff.

-Rich

Gotcha. I dunno if there'd be any advantage of running LH calipers over standard 11" calipers either, I'm just curious. As said, maybe more pad options. Or if they ever quit making the 11" calipers.