Pinion shaft vs bearing. 555-520

[Reeves]

something like Redline Shockproof oil we should be ok.

It doesn't help.

[135sohc]

Yeah, but if we are using something like Redline Shockproof oil we should be ok. Of course the shaft has to be the correct hardness, and the parts have to stay in alignment.

Think of how that bearing is loaded when installed in an axle, the shaft is passing completely through and its in effect being loaded 'equally' from both sides. In the transmission its getting loaded from one side only and its already narrower than the original bearing and its got the pinion shaft trying to 'climb' up the ring gear.

I'm sorry for being annoying about this but I dont think that bearing is ok or even partly ok for usage and expect it to be as good as the original. Penny pinching chrysler wouldnt have spent the extra cost of having koyo make up a special bearing just for usage in two transmissions in cheap throwaway cars if they didnt feel the need was there.

[Reaper1]

It doesn't help.

You split trannies in half, so you don't count! LOL Joking aside, I think you were one of the people running the 5707, right? If so, I know it was said that those that were had made it habit to inspect it every year. If you have been running it, or did, what did you find?

Think of how that bearing is loaded when installed in an axle, the shaft is passing completely through and its in effect being loaded 'equally' from both sides. In the transmission its getting loaded from one side only and its already narrower than the original bearing and its got the pinion shaft trying to 'climb' up the ring gear.

I'm sorry for being annoying about this but I dont think that bearing is ok or even partly ok for usage and expect it to be as good as the original. Penny pinching chrysler wouldnt have spent the extra cost of having koyo make up a special bearing just for usage in two transmissions in cheap throwaway cars if they didnt feel the need was there.

I understand exactly what you are talking about, and this is why I'm speculating case flex might have something to do with the bearing failing. There is a lever action going on, and so it is wreaking havok on the alignment of the shaft and the bearing, which causes uneven loading, and eventually failure. If everything can be held in place, that issue goes away and the load is transmitted to the bearing the way it was designed to carry the load.

You aren't being annoying, we are discussing things. No biggie! I would LOVE to see a readily available bearing that we could make work with little effort that matches or exceeds the Koyo! However, if that option pans out to be null, then looking at what we DO have to work with and figuring out how to make it work better should also be an option IMHO.

[Reaper1]

I wonder if these guys could help?

http://www.sqsracing.com/

[MiniMopar]

I can't quite visualize how that would happen, since the race floats freely side-to-side the bearing. The rollers can't really create any side force on the race. Also the thrust from the helical pinion gear is somewhat cancelled by the opposite thrust from helix of whatever gear you are in. The rest is handled by the ball bearing at the small end of the shaft (that's why it has a snap ring around the outside). The input shaft is what creates all that thrust on the end plate, because it only has the main shaft to mesh against.

They can create side load if the main shaft and case are not parallel under extreme loads. That was my theory, anyway.

[Reaper1]

I think this is a VERY worthwhile read!! The english is a bit funky because it's a euopean company, but the points are clear.

http://www.sqsracing.com/files/fs_fi...-gears_122.pdf

After reading it...I wonder if we could somehow run a tapered bearing on the end of the intermediate shaft next to the pinion, instead of the roller bearing?

[cordes]

I think this is a VERY worthwhile read!! The english is a bit funky because it's a euopean company, but the points are clear.

http://www.sqsracing.com/files/fs_fi...-gears_122.pdf

After reading it...I wonder if we could somehow run a tapered bearing on the end of the intermediate shaft next to the pinion, instead of the roller bearing?

Thanks for posting that up. It was an excellent read assuming their engineering skills are not on par with their English skills.

[Reaper1]

Thanks for posting that up. It was an excellent read assuming their engineering skills are not on par with their English skills.

LOL, I agree! They seem to know what they are doing, though. Making dog boxes for Audi's, VW's, Ford (I'm assuming) Cosworths, and the components to go with them...seems legit!

The only thing is, and this has been a reoccurring theme across ALL of the aftermarket transmission builders that cater to transverse gearboxes, the torque ratings are MUCH lower than most of our needs! 500Nm is only about 370ftlb and 700Nm is 516ftlb. Hell, our DOHC engine can SNEEZE 370ftlb!!! For my goals I need wider ratios and for the gearbox to be able to hold around 950Nm or 700ftlb. I'm guessing on that, but it would be within my limits to achieve my goal.

[135sohc]

I think this is a VERY worthwhile read!! The english is a bit funky because it's a euopean company, but the points are clear.

http://www.sqsracing.com/files/fs_fi...-gears_122.pdf

After reading it...I wonder if we could somehow run a tapered bearing on the end of the intermediate shaft next to the pinion, instead of the roller bearing?

VW uses a pair of tapered roller bearings back to back on their FWD units... http://www.brokevw.com/020rebuild5.html

[Reaper1]

Those look small compared to ours...at least in pictures....

[135sohc]

The pinion gear is being supported from both sides. VW has used the same basic transmission design since the late 70's, it seems to work pretty good.

Our transmissions were designed to be cheap to make and serviced by people with minimal training. They leave alot to be desired.

[Reaper1]

The pinion gear is being supported from both sides. VW has used the same basic transmission design since the late 70's, it seems to work pretty good.

Our transmissions were designed to be cheap to make and serviced by people with minimal training. They leave alot to be desired.

Agreed, but it seems out stock transmissions can handle more than their extensively modified transmissions.

[black86glhs]

Agreed, but it seems out stock transmissions can handle more than their extensively modified transmissions.

I was thinking the same. They aren't as strong as you might think.

[135sohc]

Did anyone look at this http://www.amazon.com/Koyo-Torringto.../dp/B007EE2LE8

The ID is listed as 42mm. But IDK if thats the ID of the bearing roller surface or the ID of the sleeve ?

[Reaper1]

42mm is the sleeve ID.

[shackwrrr]

this design would be nice to find the right size

[jonnymopar]

Alright, gotta bring this one back.

After reading some of the horror stories with the 5707 bearing, I'm questioning using it. I haven't pulled the original bearing out yet, and the only reason I'd be removing it is so I can dunk the case in the degreasing tank. When you remove that front bearing, does it get ruined? Test-fitting the new 5707 on the end of the intermediate shaft, it seems like the 25+ year old bearing in the case actually fits better! The snout on the end of the shaft looks mint.

Sorry if I've been flooding the transmission forum lately, but this is the first time I've had this trans apart.

[cordes]

I know for sure that if you use the proper tool the bearing can be reused.

[Reaper1]

What brand is your 5707?

[jonnymopar]

It's a National (Federal Mogul) very clearly labeled Made In China. 135sohc is actually lending me the proper tool to remove that bearing, so that's good news if it can be reused. Again, just going by fit, the old bearing feels better.