TIII billet aluminum mechanical rockers being tested.

[Directconnection]

believe it or not, the oem rockers have some sort of hard anodizing, too. That's how they stay either perfect inside the ID, or the go to hell. Once the ano breaks down, it's down to the soft aluminum casting. So yes, hard anodizing is a must. Something our shop had done to a majority of our parts, as it was precision components for the medical field. They even have a clear ano.

---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 AM ----------

6061 is the common stuff.... but if I were Wallace, I'd go with what we used to use for making molds in the machine shop (very hard, dense, and tough for aluminum) It's called T7 (7050?) something... stuff costs more, but is soooooooo much better than the generic aluminum used in millions of CNC machined products these days.

Great material, we make a lot of our stuff from it, pretty much the same strength of mild steel, but it needs to be hard anodized due to some of the alloying agents in it to ensure it doesn't develop issues (years) down the line.

Mike

Yes, that's what I was saying, too, in a previous post the other day. You can tell how superior it is just by filing it...

[rx2mazda]

for them to ride on the shaft.

You know all about riding on the shaft huh?

[turbovanman²]

Simon, you are being a meatstick.

Never heard of notching the frame, though... the guy I met that had it done years ago never mentioned this at all. (GLH-T)

You have to notch the frame for the power steering to clear, maybe read a bit?

Your a meat stick too buddy, takes one to know one,

While I agree that aluminum WILL tool harden and fail over a certain amount of cycles, I think in this case we are talking BILLIONS of cycles. Pretty much more than the lifespan of almost ANY TIII engine, even being wrung out to the max. In this case I don't think it's the aluminum so much as we're seeing a design flaw. Either the pin should be retained better, there should be better lubrication to the bearing, or the aluminum should be a higher heat treatment, or a different alloy (or both).

Agreed, if they'd simply attached the pin better, no issues for life.

believe it or not, the oem rockers have some sort of hard anodizing, too. That's how they stay either perfect inside the ID, or the go to hell. Once the ano breaks down, it's down to the soft aluminum casting. So yes, hard anodizing is a must. Something our shop had done to a majority of our parts, as it was precision components for the medical field. They even have a clear ano.

---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 AM ----------





Yes, that's what I was saying, too, in a previous post the other day. You can tell how superior it is just by filing it...

Agreed on the anodizing, I got my gear done, so far, its holding up.

You know all about riding on the shaft huh?

Snap,

[Lotashelbys]

My next ? to the guys with roller failures is the rocker shaft(yes Carroll I said shaft again dont get excited) show any wear or does the inside of the rocker where it rides on the shaft(shh Carroll) show any signs of wear as in the hard anodizing worn off and into the aluminum? I have seen alot of wear in these areas on several TIII engines and if its even missing a few thou of material that would cause the staft and roller to no longer be parrallel to the cam and maybe start to walk the roller pin out......

[Directconnection]

My next ? to the guys with roller failures is the rocker shaft(yes Carroll I said shaft again dont get excited) show any wear or does the inside of the rocker where it rides on the shaft(shh Carroll) show any signs of wear as in the hard anodizing worn off and into the aluminum? I have seen alot of wear in these areas on several TIII engines and if its even missing a few thou of material that would cause the staft and roller to no longer be parrallel to the cam and maybe start to walk the roller pin out......

I agree on worn components causing a mis-alignment like you say. But in many crude instances that I have seen come through the shop I work at, wear like you describe in other instances still didn't effect side loading. Furthermore, I have a set of rockers/shafts that are scored and worn an additional .0025+ and the pins were actually still fairly centered. Just so you don't think I am disagreeing with ya Jackson, I do agree that if the wear is tapered, then the rocker can't do it's thing squarely. Putting more load on one side could wear the pin/needle bearings just a c-hair, giving it that it taper... and that taper will then be transmitting some force causing the pin to walk out the side once it overcome the pressed/peened ends. I wonder, too.... if the pins actually "grab" and rotate some? I have that one rocker I didn't post a pic of where one end is like .010+ *larger* than the actual pin, and that end wobbles around.

[2.216VTurbo]

TIII=heavy short and wide.

Masi=tall narrow and lightweight

[Directconnection]

The masi head pics need the top half that was left out. Otherwise, nice comparison pics! A Masi hea dis one thing I don not have, nor have I ever seen in person. Must be a Mainer thing as farmers don't spend 25K on Masi Lebarons. hehehe

[daver]

That's actually the complete Masi head as pictured. Think you're thinking of the hans herrmann head which was a multi-piece affair.

[iTurbo]

The Masi head is about an 1" taller. The highest point on the Masi head is the backside/top edge of valve cover. The highest point on the Lotus head is the middle/top of the valley cover. Measured from the deck, the Masi is 9" and Lotus is 8". The oil fill caps add about 1/2" to the overall height of each.

[turbovanman²]

What is it with Masi engines having heads with chunks out of them in the chamber ala 2 stroke destruction?

What does a TIII head weigh vs a Masi head?

[iTurbo]

Hey Jackson, I just checked a set of rocker shafts from my red Spirit R/T. After the rocker failure #1, I sent the cams *and* rocker shafts (including hold-downs) to LWP to be dry film lubed. There does not appear to be any wear of the DFL on the rocker shafts at all, not even on the shaft where failure #2 occured. I put probably a little over 40k miles on this motor with the LWP stage I cams and rocker shafts DFL'd and it held up great. Inside bore of the rocker arm looks good too on all of them except one of them (from the white R/T) had severe galling on the sides from contact with one of the hold-downs (hence my decision to have the set DFL'd).

[Directconnection]

That's actually the complete Masi head as pictured. Think you're thinking of the hans herrmann head which was a multi-piece affair.

Yes, I was thinking of the HH head. But, I also saw that the top half of the cam "caps" so to speak, are not included in the pictures (I see studs for them, though) Is the VC part of the top half of the head to secures the camshafts? Forgive my masi ignorance. Maybe the Masi Nazi will chime in soon :-)

[black86glhs]

Yes, I was thinking of the HH head. But, I also saw that the top half of the cam "caps" so to speak, are not included in the pictures (I see studs for them, though) Is the VC part of the top half of the head to secures the camshafts? Forgive my masi ignorance. Maybe the Masi Nazi will chime in soon :-)

I thought Alan did......oh wait, you mean the other one, right?

[turbovanman²]

Inside bore of the rocker arm looks good too on all of them except one of them (from the white R/T) had severe galling on the sides from contact with one of the hold-downs (hence my decision to have the set DFL'd).

That's why I like the updated hold downs, so that kind of damage doesn't happen.

Yes, I was thinking of the HH head. But, I also saw that the top half of the cam "caps" so to speak, are not included in the pictures (I see studs for them, though) Is the VC part of the top half of the head to secures the camshafts? Forgive my masi ignorance. Maybe the Masi Nazi will chime in soon :-)

Cam caps, ala VW 2.0L 4 cylinders. Check out "Reaper1" for his Masi build log, tons of pictures.

[Reaper1]

A Masi head less the cams and manifolds is 44#'s. I weighed mine. Just for discussion's sake the Masi crank is 52#'s! I weighed that myself as well!

[turbovanman²]

A Masi head less the cams and manifolds is 44#'s. I weighed mine. Just for discussion's sake the Masi crank is 52#'s! I weighed that myself as well!

Pretty light, I'll have to weight a bare TIII head. I know the cranks are stupid heavy,

[GLHNSLHT2]

There's a thread that Simon and I have posted in that have weights of complete heads sans the valve covers. I don't remember what thread it is though. The Masi head was significantly lighter.

As for being the Mazi Nazi I'm not. I have a 2 8v setups, 2 masi setups, and a 2.4 turbo setup in my shop at the moment. Though I guess I still see the Masi as the superior motor out of all of them.

[rx2mazda]

....I still see the Masi as the superior motor out of all of them.

That's because you don't have a TIII there.

[Lotashelbys]

As for being the Mazi Nazi I'm not. I have a 2 8v setups, 2 masi setups, and a 2.4 turbo setup in my shop at the moment. Though I guess I still see the Masi as the superior motor out of all of them.

That's because you don't have a TIII there.

lol GLHNSLHT2 I know how bad you wanna add a TIII to that collection! Drive one for a while and I know you will like it! lol

[GLHNSLHT2]

You'd have to do all the maintenence, fixing and then give me gas money to drive the thing around. Sorry but I will NEVER have a T3.