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Thread: X-Prize Daytona

  1. #21
    turbo addict
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    The water used to generate the HHO will freeze in the winter. You're not familiar with it because you live in Cali.

  2. #22
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanman²'s Avatar
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    Subscribed.

    Love the AAC,
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  3. #23
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    This combination of items should yield some surprising results.. i wish i lived closer to lend free labor to the project

  4. #24
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    Quote Originally Posted by moparman76_69 View Post
    The water used to generate the HHO will freeze in the winter. You're not familiar with it because you live in Cali.
    Ah, didn't think about that... Been out of Indiana (winters anyway) for more than a few years now, must have purged that part from my memory... Which is also a likely reason I keep thinking of moving back!

    Guess I need to make a trip out for X-mas so I can remember!

    I'll assume there aren't any suitable anti-freezes that could be added? I imagine it would contaminate the mix...

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
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  5. #25
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    subscribed.. this is very interesting. I was trying to remember where I'd heard of peltier coolers, they were some of the first cooling heatsinks for computer chips and were used with water cooling, which allowed people to overclock them just due to their cooling power.

  6. #26
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor "Top Fuel" Bender's Avatar
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    Quote Originally Posted by Glmwpg View Post
    subscribed.. this is very interesting. I was trying to remember where I'd heard of peltier coolers, they were some of the first cooling heatsinks for computer chips and were used with water cooling, which allowed people to overclock them just due to their cooling power.

    you can buy dorm size fridge with them on now, no more compressor
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  7. #27
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    Zero weight synthetic oils are good, but only with tight clearances.

    ---------- Post added at 11:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------

    I’m sure many would poo poo this next gadget without a basic science lesson. So before I reveal yet another incredible gizmo, let’s learn about what happens around TDC as the power stroke begins.

    We feed the engine air and gasoline. For the chemistry lesson, air contributes oxygen (O2) and gasoline contributes hydrogen and carbon (HC). The oxygen and HC molecules are stable and don’t want to mix with each other, which is why you can store gasoline in the ambient air without the oxygen combusting with the HC elements in the gasoline. (Shown is a stable straight chain octane gasoline molecule.)


    In order to get the oxygen, hydrogen, and carbon elements to combine into water (H2O) and carbon dioxide (CO2) we must first tear these stable molecules apart. This would be called an endothermic reaction, whereas it takes energy to perform. The spark plug supplies the initial energy source to start the process. It separates oxygen atoms from the stable molecules, and pries hydrogens from the stable fuel molecules. With free-floating oxygen and hydrogen atoms, the first step is to form the OH- radical and/or hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), and then stable water (H2O). When the oxygen radicals and hydrogen radicals combine into OH- and then H2O, energy is released in an exothermic reaction. In other words we get heat. In fact, more energy is released than it took to pry the oxygens apart and pull the hydrogens from the fuel. This excess energy powers the vehicle. Eventually the oxygens combine with the remaining carbon atoms to form CO, then CO2.
    (Oxygen to H2O2 to H2O and OH-.)


    I hope I’m not loosing you yet. It’s not that hard. The fuel we feed the engine is in a liquid state. This would be like row after row of brick walls stacked tightly together. Each brick would be like an atom, and the mortar that holds the bricks together would be like electrons. It is much easier to dismantle brick walls if you could first remove the mortar. However, in order to get to the bricks in the center of a liquid droplet of fuel, you must demolish your way to the center. When the fuel injector sprays micron sized droplets of fuel into the air stream, these droplets burn from the outside inwardly until they eventually disappear (which takes time). A fully vaporized fuel, intimately homogenized with the air would be the easiest to burn. Gasoline ranges from Hexane (C6H14) to Dodecane (C12H26). Hexane vaporizes at about 135 degrees F. at ambient pressures, while Dodecane vaporizes at around 435 degrees. Hexane can fully combust in less than a millisecond, while Dodecane takes over 33 milliseconds. Remember these numbers.

    Now on to the cool stuff. We can make the intake charge easier to combust by first vaporizing the fuel prior to admitting it into the engine. More practically, the more fuel we can vaporize, the better the combustion process. Now here’s the big secret! If we could actually dislodge some of the electrons in the fuel, the molecules would fall apart much easier, thus reducing the endothermic energy requirements (losses). Get that? To better vaporize the fuel, simply heating it up does a nice job; the hotter the better (up to about coolant temps, because the injectors and fuel lines cannot take much higher temperatures). What about dislodging electrons, you ask? A catalyst by definition simply dislodges electrons. Wouldn’t it be awesome if we could heat the fuel while simultaneously running it across a catalyst bed, thus pulling electrons? There is a product that does just that. It’s called the Cal Cat, short for Calorie Catalyst (PantherPerformanceTech.com)


    The inner pipe has hot engine coolant running through, tapped at the heater hoses. The outer chamber houses 5 different catalysts. The fuel enters, heats up (making it easier to vaporize), runs across the catalyst bed to strip away electrons (which by the way works better the hotter it gets), and then is plumbed to the injector rail. Not visible in this picture is a grounding stud. If you dislodge bunches of electrons (electricity) you need a safe place to send them. The grounding stud bleeds off the dislodged electrons to chassis ground.

    Part of the process inevitably cracks larger fuel molecules. Remember how Dodecane takes 435 degrees to vaporize and 33 ms to burn? Many of these large bulky fuel molecules will crack and turn into smaller molecules. One Dodecane can make 2 Hexanes (which vaporize at 135 and burn in less than 1 ms).

    More to come,
    Mike

  8. #28
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    Neat, but it does raise concerns of combustion stability /detonation /preignition. A return -less fuel system would help unless a single pass wont do the job. I can see why you'll have to modify ignition timing if you are essentially converting to a faster /lower common denominator fuel molecule. Seems like you could get similar results from higher compression, obviously a more uniform chemistry lends itself to a more consistent burn, if it is steady enough ...

    I'm curious how this trick would react the ethanol in our fuels and if higher or lower percentages would present a problems due to the added O2.

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
    - Edmund Burke

  9. #29
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    Higher compression promotes detonation, while the Cal Cat actually makes the fuel less likely to detonate. We have E10 fuel in NJ, and the Cal Cat has been tried on E85 fuel in the midwest. It actually LIKES the alcohol.

    If you’re interested, I did a much more thorough (yet still in layman’s terms) explanation of the combustion process in The Ultimate Fuel Economy Book (FuelEconomyTips.biz). I put a little time in on the Arctic Air Charger. I lightly blasted the housing to remove any surface rust and powder coated it black wrinkle finish. The fins are spray painted with gold enamel.


    Here you can see the mounting bracket. It goes to the upper hole in the front of the head.


    The screws are painted the same gold as the fins.


    Here it is mocked up on the engine.


    More later,

    Mike

  10. #30
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    Pretty interesting stuff. I was half expecting you to say you were gonna run one of the cheapo fuel line magnets Which I should ask you I guess, do those work at all, or are they just a money gimmick? The fuel heater is an old, yet seldom used or developed trick. I've heard of old setups that used exhaust gases to heat the fuel. I like the setup you are showing though. So it essentially makes the fuel easier to burn, yet also increases the stability of the burn? Almost like increasing the octane?

    What are you going to use to seal the AAC ends off with? Doesn't look like the screws seal it up too tight.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  11. #31
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    According to rather credible research labs, magnets work only when you have the north and south intersecting the flow of the fuel perpendicularly; in other words, from left to right. One of the best ones I've tried has 4 ring magnets with the left to right polar arangement. The fuel flows up the center of the ring magnets. The assembly is then strapped to heater hoses to add a bit of thermal energy for even better vaporization and burn. What the magnets do, according to PhD types is to make the clusters of molecules within the liquid smaller. This makes the fuel easier to vaporize, and easier to burn.

    Remember the fancy PCV system? I’m not done yet. Another installment is the Inter Charger. So let’s follow the bouncing ball. First we start at the valve cover. The PCV charge is ducted to a “T” near the timing belt area. One leg of the “T” went to a check valve then to a catch can, which will go to the turbo inlet. The other leg went to a catch can, which gets piped to the Stratifyer (gold aluminum block). From there it will go to an Inter Charger (ExtremeEnergySolutions.net).


    The Inter Charger does for the PCV system what the Cal Cat does for the fuel. It has dissimilar metals inside that act to dislodge electrons. The chemical process is catalytic in nature, but somewhat resembling the galvanic corrosion process. The housing is anodized aluminum (which does not conduct electricity and lasts practically forever). The little one with red ends in the picture is for gasoline powered cars (what I’m using) and the big blue-capped one is for big rigs with turbo diesels. I have to clear it with the Inter Charger Regional Manager before I disclose the modifications I’m doing, but let’s just say it won’t go on stock.

    More later,
    Mike

  12. #32
    boostaholic
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    I've followed this website for years.
    http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/
    Always wanted to try it, looks like your somewhat on the same page.

  13. #33
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Turbo224's Avatar
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    Pretty interesting stuff. Subscribed.

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  14. #34
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    If you hearken back to the picture of the control panel, there are 4 LEDs that are supposed to indicate ignition performance. Remember I said I would be getting the signal at the spark plugs? If you know anything about ignition systems and electronics, simply tapping the signal where the high voltage activity occurs can cause a multitude of problems. Although I address buffering the high voltage spikes between the plug and the LED on the circuit board, another issue is that of RFI EMF. Simply put, the solid wire used to conduct the signal to the board, and then to the LEDs would emit a radio frequency that would tend to scramble the ECU signals. However, follow along as we tap this resource. First step is to solder the 24 AWG wire to the ignition wire at the spark plug terminal. I had to dope it heavily with flux paste to get it to stick.


    The wire is then fed up through the boot and the boot pulled back to its normal position. WD-40 goes a long way to help things slide effortlessly.


    The wires are then installed in the distributor cap. For those of you unfamiliar with the peculiar wires our engines use, the terminal inside the cap is actually part of the wire. I have pulled apart countless distributor caps only to find the terminal is up inside the cap where the rotor cannot get to it. To keep the terminals secured, I take a small screw driver and spread the prongs apart. This way they can’t pull out.


    To combat the RFI problem, an inductor ring is used. Each of the 4 wires that will feed the LEDs are fed through the iron inductor ring twice. I spaced them about 90 degrees apart.


    Since this looks rather messy, a little tape can keep things looking neat. Orange tape augments the color scheme of the vehicle quite well.


    The 4 individual wires will be tied into a connector that allows for easy servicing in the future.

    More to come,
    Mike

  15. #35
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    Surprising! I would expect those wires to be a source of misfire, maybe not at n/a cylinder pressures, but once boost comes on strong, I would expect that the high cylinder pressure, and the accompanying gap resistance to make them the path of least resistance ... I understand that the board can/will be built with high resistance so that even the high tension doesn't zap anything, but the insulation on the wires themselves seems inadequate.

    I'm not saying it won't or can't work, you obviously have a clue as they say, rather I'm curious as to how this is addressed. For now I'll assume the inductor is "absorbing" or dampening in some way as to prevent this?

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
    - Edmund Burke

  16. #36
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    What is the voltage rating on the insulation of the 24 awg wire your using?

  17. #37
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    I may have a disappointment awaiting me, but I have a high impedance circuit at the board end, and with the inductance ring there should be virtually no current passing through.

    I mentioned a couple of new technologies, but there are dozens of hours doing the little things, more conventional things that haven’t been covered. This time I wanted to show you some of the “small” details that went into the “Z” so you could appreciate the immense work going into this car. For starters, many of the brackets have been blasted and powder coated. Here’s the passenger side engine mount with a poly mount (PolyBushings.com).


    This is the front mount.


    The fan got a similar treatment, but with paint.


    I’m giving you a glimpse of things to come, but what I’m showcasing for now is the electro-plating process. I started with copper tubing and a tubing bender.


    You can see that there is copper tubing and chrome looking tubing in the picture. The chrome looking tubing is copper tubing that has been “double chromed”. I first polished the copper tubing, then nickel plated the pieces. Next I chrome plated them. After a few moments on the buffer, it looks like commercial chrome. You can get the chemicals, books, and electronic controllers from CaswellPlating.com.


    Needed would be a buffer…


    …nickel pickle, chrome pickle, heaters, thermometer, stainless steel anode (small wire), and a power supply (not shown). I use a marine battery for the power supply.


    It turns plain copper into spectacular.


    As for what the copper tubing goes to, let’s just say that one of the switches on the control panel is involved. It gets better, trust me.

    More later,
    Mike

  18. #38
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    For my own selfish reasons, I'm curious if you could get the resistance of the air gap this way?
    ..
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
    - Edmund Burke

  19. #39
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    I absolutely love this. Subscribed!!

  20. #40
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: X-Prize Daytona

    What's the advantage of those plug wires over regular plug wires?
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

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