Need Ideas

[89FerrariShelby]

Funny how rare it is to post about a car unless somethings wrong.

So after all the steering headaches, I got the car back together, and took it out. We have a road near our house that's 3 lanes, about a 1/2 mile, with a parrallel road that's the same, and turn offs that basically make it an oval. In other words, a really good place to test out the power of a car

So after driving the Daytona here and there to get it used to running, I headed down there to finally get some pulls in. I have no idea why, but the car feels sluggish. With the windows down I heard it break the tires loose at the early onset of boost (nothing special, mainly because it's got 19" rims with about a 1" of tire, i could probably break them loose with the stock engine), but after backing out and getting back in with traction, the thing still feels slowwwwwwwwwwwwww.....after pulling all the way through 3rd gear i was doing less than 80 (for reference i used to be doing near 80 when shifting into 3rd gear).

So I parked it, and haven't been driving it for about a month now. The other day I fired it up and drove it around town, and realized i miss it.

In the interest of doing this once, I was hoping to get some ideas of what to look for. So far i've come up with

Check the timing (not sure why it would have changed, but who knows)

Spark plug gap?

Check the CAT, may be blocked? (this came from my uncle, apparently he had a similar problem in his truck and that was the cause. The wideband reads around 14.8-15.2 at idle, so she's definitely pig rich, but that was the case when it was fast, just thinking it might mean blocked pipes).

Anyone have any other ideas? I only seem to be able to get at this thing in spurts, so i'd like to cover as many possibilities as I can at once.

Sorry for the essay, appreciate it if you've stuck with it this far. =)

[rampant150]

14.8-15.2 is not pig rich...

[89FerrariShelby]

The car literally suffocates me out of my garage in about 2 min of running, even with all doors/windows open. maybe the numbers aren't pig rich, but i promise you, the car is running excessively rich...after driving around for 20 minutes i smell like gas for the rest of the day...

[turbovanman²]

14.8 is not pig rig, its stoich, 10:1 is pig rich. We want 14.7 for idle, 13.5 for part throttle boost, 14.7 for cruise or leaner if it can take it and 11.5 WOT. The higher the number, the leaner it is. You could be sensitive to CO, or maybe the fuel is old and stinky.

I would check cam timing, ignition timing, drop the dp and see what happens. What boost? What mods? Stock, they aren't fast.

[BadAssPerformance]

The car literally suffocates me out of my garage in about 2 min of running, even with all doors/windows open. maybe the numbers aren't pig rich, but i promise you, the car is running excessively rich...after driving around for 20 minutes i smell like gas for the rest of the day...

What do the plugs look like after idleing?

Yes, 14:1 is not rich, however, idle O2 readings are sometimes off due to overlap, etc. which is why cars go open loop (no O2) at idle

[RoadWarrior222]

I'd start with checking plugs, wires, and ignition timing, "rich smell" really means unburned fuel in the exhaust, which may or may not be caused by the mixture being too rich in the first place, so eliminate inefficient ignition, then proceed...

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, cam timing too

[89FerrariShelby]

which timing is the one you check with the light in the transmission case? how would you check the other?

i do have a weird, what i'll call skipping, noise coming from the belt side of the car (at initial startup, then it fades)...sounds like the top sprocket might be "off"....

i thought the higher the number the leaner...but with the smell i thought maybe i was crazy. I know we bumped up my fuel pressure because I was having some serious cold start issues (car would take 5 to 6 starts to actually stay alive). since its not rich, hopefully that eliminates the blocked exhaust...

i'll have to dig around for the mods, but it's highly modified and was very fast the last time i drove it...i'm not very good at drag racing (only done it once) but my understanding the with the build and a good driver the car should be capable of mid to high 12's...or whatever 300hp/400ft lbs equates to (that was cliffs bench racing guesstimate, due to my crappy calibrations to this point i haven't seen those numbers on a dyno yet just 230/340). It's definitely not driving like that.

car hasn't had a tune up in a while...i'll probably replace all the plugs/wires and check back here for the other timing info...

thanks guys

[turbovanman²]

You check the ignition timing on the window, if that checks out, then aim it at the hole in the timing cover, the hole in the cam gear should be close, just remember its 12 deg out unless you have an adjustable light. Don't forget to unplug the coolant sensor.

If you had to bump up the fuel pressure, check it, the pumps check valve could be on its way out.

[GLHNSLHT2]

13.5 for cruise

13.5?!?!?!?! No wonder your van get's horrible mileage.

[turbovanman²]

13.5?!?!?!?! No wonder your van get's horrible mileage.

Sorry, meant part throttle boost,

Edited, thanks.

[89FerrariShelby]

Anyone know a good brand of wires & plugs? Also what the plugs need to be gapped to?

I just realized the wires were put on 8 years ago (the plugs probably 5) so it wouldn't hurt to replace them regardless....

[Orangetona]

Im just using Napas Belden line. They are lifetime warranty and they work fine for me.

[zin]

If you are still getting run out of the garage by fumes, the wide band is lying to you, and may have a bad sensor... They do need to warm up for about a min or so before they'll give you an accurate reading as well, and I know the AEM units will show a 14.8 or so until they are fully warmed up, no doubt so that those using it to replace the stocker will be feeding the computer a reasonable number for it to work with...

You may want to put a scan tool on it to see if the computer is pulling timing due to bad gas as well as confirming the base timing is correct. A tune up is never a bad thing, also might want to confirm the fuel pressure is correct and rising with the boost 1 to 1...

Simon's suggestion of checking the cam timing is also something I'd do, especially since you hear a belt rubbing, I'd add checking the timing belt tension. If it's right it should run in the middle of the sprocket, if it's too loose or tight it will run to the inside or outside (can never remember which is which), but the problem could be retarded cam timing as doing so tends to kill bottom end power, shifting it to the higher RPMs, if it is within reason...

Best of luck!

[turbovanman²]

Anyone know a good brand of wires & plugs? Also what the plugs need to be gapped to?

I just realized the wires were put on 8 years ago (the plugs probably 5) so it wouldn't hurt to replace them regardless....

I sell decent wires as does Rbyrant. Beldon, Autolite, Bosch, all crap.

Plugs, stock champions, Autolites are fine. Gap should be around .028-.030.

[cordes]

If you want to make a more mechanical check of the cam timing you could check to make sure that the dist slot is parallel to the long edge of the block while the hash in the timing window is at 0*, and the cam sprocket arrows are pointed at the cam cap seam.

Here's a video I made detailing how to set the cam timing. It shows how to check it by making sure everything is lined up too.

[amx364]

How fresh is the gas?
I had to dump my tank and start fresh. It had been a few years.

[Rattlesnake]

If you smell gas that bad, you must have a gas leak. Did you just installed those 19's? If circumference are different and the one you have now is bigger the car will be sluggish due to the affected gear ratio.

[89FerrariShelby]

wow...so the car has pretty much just sat this whole time. yay...

I did manage to capture 2 vids of the noise i mentioned

for those that asked, the 19's have been on the car since the engine was redone, they're not the reason its slow (though i wont argue they are holding it back..just not relative to the last time I drove it). The only changes from the last time i drove it (and it was running well) are a new timing belt tensioner and timing belt (put on by me...and i'm guessing that's the culprit) and it sat on its a$$ for another year (so maybe some things went???)

I have another timing belt, and i'm going to be doing that over Thanksgiving weekend, as well as putting in the new plugs and wires i got...but i wanted to post the video's in case any of the more knowledgeable people watched them and could point out what might be causing the noise (it fades as the engine warms up).





thanks in advance, i really appreciate the knowledge and help from this board...

[cordes]

It certainly sounds belt related to me. How do all of the accessory belts look?