Neon waterpump???

[RoadWarrior222]

Hi again,

I friggin' hate Neon's. Sister in Law's POS again... apparently it needs a waterpump... not so sure it does, I keep getting these third hand diagnoses when she takes it to other people and get to look at it when they've done something or other to hide/mask/bandaid the original symptoms... but then she asks me if I can fix it.... this could be to do with the previous overheating issue, which seemed to be lost coolant, which could of course have been leaking out of the waterpump, never heard any sign of noise from it though... also it could also be that she's not taking my word on the gauges acting up being a common problem and focussing on the fact that the coolant gauge goes screwy, just reporting that to a halfassed knowledgable bodger and he's telling her it's the waterpump.... soooooooooo......

Anyway, she's sorta convinced now she needs a new car, since I think professionals are quoting her near a thousand on the phone, and I guess covering themselves for maybe a replacement head if it's stripped the timing belt and bent valves.. so kinda giving stupid high figures..

But she's rooming here half the time and if she goes in hock large for another car it will probably negatively impact my financial sitch with increased sponging...

Well anyway, how much of a B!tch are these? I've been finding stuff that says use a lift or cherry picker for engine support when the mounts are off, and I ain't got one.. I have done the 3.0 and Escort pumps by jacking the engine up, does that work on a Neon or do you need more than about 6 inches? I had the impression that they weren't too too bad on these but I dunno... it's a days worth of energy and good weather that I'm running out of with winter coming on with my own sh!t to get done.

Thing I'm worrying about though is that she mentioned white foam in the rad, so I'm thinking the HG is blowing (Which may mean pump is in the clear IF there's still ACTUALLY an overheat issue) but that's another kettle of worms that I am not sure I want to get into right now. However, since she had at one time way back in the day a boyfriend "into cars" who told her a few things (Without qualification, that mainly apply to late 70s technology) she thinks I can't be right on that because he told her once that "white smoke" means a HG, so obviously if it's not blowing a humungous cloud of white smoke she won't believe me, being a woman of fixed ideas. (Still can't get her to understand that starting a fuel injected car with your foot to the floor cuts off fuel and is mainly useful to clear out a flooded motor, not works the automatic choke on a cold morning like old carbed cars, she tries to kill her battery regularly on cold days like that) Well anyway, I dunno if I'll get co-operation in reporting other signs of HG failure, and whether I'll get to see them, since she might get someone else to look and they'll change the oil or something without me getting to check for milkshake...

So anyway, I'll expect her to take it straight to someone else when it's acting up next, who may or may not have a clue, then she'll take what they say, and translate it into womanese car talk gibberish, and expect me to know exactly what he thought or did without having much clue if he actually knew what he was talking about in the first place or if it was a pro with too much work on who gave her the brush off version, or whether it was in fact an accurate call on the sitch, but has been mangled all to hell in translation.... then she'll show up here again and expect a 30 second snap diagnosis or confirmation, when maybe the low fluids have been topped off, degunked or the right wires glitched back into place and it's not doing anything unusual...

I'd agree that this Neon hasn't got a wholllle lot of life left in it due to corrosion issues, but with newer tires, brakes and shocks already on it, it should be a good driver for a year or so...

Well, what's the skinny on the waterpump job anyway? And do they fail in silent mode without any whine or squeak? Also not seen any coolant down that side of the block yet..

thanks,


RW222

[turbovanman²]

You need a jack and some patience. Its like a TM, you remove the mount, crank pulley, covers and voila, there it is. Its not that hard to do, get a new belt, some oil seals if you want, pump and tensioner. If you do the front crank seal, you need to watch how far the timing gear pulley goes back on, it doesn't have a stop so you can push it all the way back into the seal,

You need a special puller for the crank pulley, a regular harmonic won't work.

I haven't heard any squeak etc, but usually the ones I see leak out the weep hole.

[RoadWarrior222]

I guess I'll see if I can get a look under the timing cover to check out that weep hole to confirm if it's seeping there then.

Thanks for the headsup about the pulley, when you say "regular" puller, what type do you mean, I got one to work on the 3.0 that's a yoke type that will do 4 or 6 bolt ones...

Flicked thru' a haynes manual in a book store earlier today while I was there and it seemed like it was not quite as easy as the Escort one, but not quite as hard as the 3.0... I ended up doing the Escort one multiple times due to crappy part issues, and I could probably do it in 2 hours now.

[dodgeshadowchik]

Whatever you do.... DO NOT BUY A CHINESE water pump. Had one fail on a 95 DOHC neon with..... 800, yes.. EIGHT HUNDRED miles on it. It failed in "silent mode" as in.. just started peeing coolant on the ground.

They are really no worse than any other FWD car out there with the water pump driven off the timing.

But it does sound like she's having head gasket issues. Another thing Neons were known for; especially if she is still running the non-MLS one.

[RoadWarrior222]

Yah, I keep forgetting if it's a 97 or 98, which is around when they changed?

Also yes, I am a real h8er on chinese parts here, after doing some things on my Escort 5 times in a year but am also having extreme trouble sourcing non-chinese, non-$$$tealer parts, nobody knows where it's made until the box turns up...

[turbovanman²]

The puller is the same as the LS engine, it has 3 arms that hook under pads between the spokes, then it has a choice of rod length that goes down the center of the crank. The regular puller is the SBC unit, that you bolt on.

http://www.planetlsx.com/tech/How_To..._Camaro_SS/105

[rbryant]

The puller is the same as the LS engine, it has 3 arms that hook under pads between the spokes, then it has a choice of rod length that goes down the center of the crank. The regular puller is the SBC unit, that you bolt on.

http://www.planetlsx.com/tech/How_To..._Camaro_SS/105

I find getting the stupid accessory pulley back on is annoying with the 2.0/2.4 can be a pain. I really wish they had just used a key and not a press fit.

I still need to get mine back on the SRT4 engine but it keeps binding up and doesn't want to pull on with a longer bolt going into the crank. I did it previously by putting it in an oven and heating it up. I tried just heating it with a propane torch but it must not have gotten hot enough to expand because it still didn't go on. The fact that it is 115 degrees in my garage probably isn't helping because the crank is also pretty hot.

I guess I will have to sneak it into the oven some night when my wife isn't looking....

Do you have any other tips on how to get the pulley back on?

-Rich

[turbovanman²]

Rich, are you talking about the crank pulley or the timing belt crank pulley? I've never had issues either driving them back on with a brass punch or using the bolt to suck on the crank pulley. I do put some ARP moly lube on the surfaces though.

[rbryant]

Rich, are you talking about the crank pulley or the timing belt crank pulley? I've never had issues either driving them back on with a brass punch or using the bolt to suck on the crank pulley. I do put some ARP moly lube on the surfaces though.

Crank pulley (the one that drives the accessories).

Perhaps it was off center on one attempt first and messed up the crank snout or something

I actually bought a tool from some guy on neons.org that was made for installing the pulley. It has bearings on it to prevent the bolt from binding when sucking in the pulley and it doesn't seem to work that well. Perhaps I just need to use a regular bolt and some moly lube.

It was one of those things I was fighting with a couple of months ago when it was 115 degrees in the garage so I probably didn't have much patience for it at the time.

-Rich

[RoadWarrior222]

it has 3 arms that hook under pads between the spokes,

Alrighty, thanks, I will see what I can do with mine when/if I get into it, it's pretty versatile, and I can use it halfassed backwards and try and hook bolt heads underneath... done something like that before.

---------- Post added at 01:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:49 PM ----------

Rich, using an impact on it might work good, provide some jiggle to get it going.

[rbryant]

Rich, using an impact on it might work good, provide some jiggle to get it going.

Or really mess it up.

I will try it on one of the lower torque settings and see what happens.

-Rich

[RoadWarrior222]

Yah, definitely not 1000ftlb and rip the head off the nut.

[turbovanman²]

It was one of those things I was fighting with a couple of months ago when it was 115 degrees in the garage so I probably didn't have much patience for it at the time.

-Rich

I could see that,

[RoadWarrior222]

But she's rooming here half the time and if she goes in hock large for another car it will probably negatively impact my financial sitch with increased sponging...

Well damn, just found out there is also an option C: ... not fixing it, not buying another one, and hanging round here 100% of the time begging rides.


I guess the waterpump looks more likely, it is apparently losing visible amounts of coolant out that side of the engine... so she's stopped driving it for now, and left it with a friend in the next city over... haven't got to get a look at it, but the story sounds more convincing this time.

Still worried that it's gonna be, get into waterpump, find HG leak, take off head, do a top end rebuild, find bearings scuffed, do a bottom end rebuilt, ah what the hell, R&R the tranny too.... and while we've got so much out, I'll hang it on a rotisserie annnnnd....

[Big_P]

I use a regular 3 jaw puller on the 2.0/2.4 crank pulleys. Pull the bolt out, stick a 6" 1/4" drive extension in the hole in the crank, and use the puller bolt to push on that to get the pulley off. To put it on, some light whacks with a 4lb hammer will put it right in place.

Is it the SOHC neon or DOHC? should be the same either way, DOHC is a little more pain in the --- though.

[raccoon]

its no harder then your escort or 3.0 van. no room at all but you know this. get yourself racket wrenches for the common dodge sizes for sure if you dont already have some. I found them invaluable while i owned a neon.

To get the pully back on I heat it up with a propane torch then afew whacks with a dead blow hammer.

[Big_P]

Be glad she doesn't own a pt cruiser. lol.

[rbryant]

You guys aren't concerned about hurting the bearings when driving the accessory pulley on with a large hammer and putting thrust on them?

-Rich

[RoadWarrior222]

Well there ways around that

i) Don't do it while the motor is running...
ii) Don't do it 5 times a week over several years.

[turbovanman²]

You guys aren't concerned about hurting the bearings when driving the accessory pulley on with a large hammer and putting thrust on them?

-Rich

Nope, I hear that all the time but I've been doing this along time and I always beat on the pulley with a brass punch and hammer. If there is no room, I have the tool for V8's, basically a threaded rod with bearings, like you used earlier.