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Thread: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

  1. #121
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by lightbulb010 View Post
    Glad you got it sorted out. Where do you think the fluctuations were coming from? I'm assuming they must be from the intake valves opening and as the engine revs up and sucks in more air the pressure in your intake fluctuates wildly at a high rate of speed. I can't think of where else the fluctuation would be coming from unless there was a leak somewhere. It would be interesting to see if the same fluctuation occurs with a larger intake and/or TB.

    Can't wait to see the results with the bigger injectors. I like the idea of this FIC. Almost makes me wish I hadn't already gone through the trouble of rewiring my van for the Megasquirt. Good luck!
    I don't know why they happen at 4600, possibly resonance in the intake manifold. Remember the "torque tube" in early intake manifolds and the divider in later model intake manifolds. I moved the reference from the rear of plenum to the neck so I dont understand. Car certainly doesn't appear to have bottlenecks.
    I wish I could say that electrical noise was not at fault but I am not really sure. I just don't see how the grounds can get much better. I do understand that the restrictor stuff is usually used on cars that have poor idle qualities like ITB setups or rotaries.

    Injectors arrived. I need to find a place that can repair my old modified TIII pressure plate. I have a feeling I will be blowing through my clutch soon and not be able to race.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  2. #122
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    Saving my thoughts here cause I had real internet for my laptop while visiting parents. Researched what I need for the injector swap. Going back home tomorrow.

    Plan of attack is to set rate of gain with new injectors to 2.5:1 rate of gain so that at 25psi boost, my fuel pressure would be at 98.5 when starting at 36. That will give me more headroom on pump flow. Not sure how much power it will make, especially since its going to get some bumpsticks in the future. I have my base pressure down real low and I might undo that and instead mess with the injector delay function on the 30# injectors trying to get the OEM ecu back to 0% fuel adaption. Then I have to figure out what I want to do with the 60# for the lag factor. Not sure if I want the 60# injectors at 0% correction or what. I can modify that 3 ways. Changing base AND by messing with lag factors AND by changing fueling correction table. I think I would prefer keeping around 30# base pressure and then add in the full -50% fueling (should be twice as big as the 30 so -50% fueling....) and then see what happens. If its too lean or too rich, I can tweak. These injectors might not idle @ 14.7:1 AFR because I see they get very sketchy at 1.5ms pulsewidths. Lose all linearity and flow drops to zero real quick.

    AEM FIC injector lag factor simply means how much of the incoming pulsewidth to ignore when calculating the fueling changes you have in your tables. So for a value of 0% change, nothing happens. With 1% change it only changes the PW beyond the lag time by 1%.
    Lame that they don't tell you this information ANYWHERE. Even the techs often incorrectly answered questions on this topic years ago.

    All this stuff, base pressure, rate of gain, injector lag, injector scaling needs to be locked in before I start datalogging and dialing in the fuel maps.

    One thing I haven't messed with is being able to change the load bins. I don't want all the load bins out of boost because thats almost always closed loop. I need more resolution in boost because my fueling % numbers change too much on a naturally aspirated ECU (since I am adding ALL the fuel for boost on top of what the ecu already commands instead of just correcting the amount of fuel provided to account for modifications).
    Last edited by Ondonti; 07-19-2016 at 01:12 AM.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  3. #123
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    i see you are still using a rising rate regulator.

    any reason to add fuel mechanically rather than all in the FIC via pulsewidth?

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  4. #124
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    FIC can only add/subtract PW within a range afaik so outside that range you have to do something in addition.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  5. #125
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    Did a little more adjustment at 3.5psi boost and played with acceleration settings. Feeling better but haven't fully tested tip in.

    I am realizing another serious problem. The larger I go on injector the less resolution I have for fine tuning. Doubling injector size halved my accuracy. Hoping I am able to get fueling close enough to mid 11s as I move up the chart. If I can't hit where I want on AFR i have to go richer. My 3 psi load line is at -45 to -43% fueling right now so I have a lit of fuel left. The auto populated numbers when I created a new table based on doubling injector size show +54% fuel at 25 psi right now which is not possible duty cycle wise. Hoping those numbers up to are able to go lower as I keep bumping boost and analyzing datalogs. I think my limit is around 35% added fuel if my stock duty cycle is 68% peak on on a WOT pull. That would put put me at 92% duty cycle, a safe stop point. I think 25 psi will end up within my fueling limits. My bigger concern is that adding cams or other mods will take me beyond the Injectors capacity at high rpms.
    Last edited by Ondonti; 07-21-2016 at 08:06 AM.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  6. #126
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    Up to 5.5psi from 3.5psi. Trying to get boost to exact table levels. So far I have only been removing fuel so that's good. I don't have enough load cells perfected to see a trend on fueling as boost goes up so I can make better guesses and skip some load points
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  7. #127
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    I think 25 psi will end up within my fueling limits.
    Well, that's one major goal hit. Big cams and rpm imply MORE than tripling stock power. I think expecting a piggyback to handle that is ambitious. I'm not against trying until you figure out where its limits are but in the end if you are paving a path for others to follow i think the FIC will fit almost everyone's builds who are not going for huge power and the standalone stuff should be left for the VERY ambitious projects.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  8. #128
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    Well, that's one major goal hit. Big cams and rpm imply MORE than tripling stock power. I think expecting a piggyback to handle that is ambitious. I'm not against trying until you figure out where its limits are but in the end if you are paving a path for others to follow i think the FIC will fit almost everyone's builds who are not going for huge power and the standalone stuff should be left for the VERY ambitious projects.
    I have the car tuned to a full 10psi boost and the theoretical trims at 25 psi have dropped to +19% which is well within duty cycle limits. Now it's a matter of not having enough fuel for a big cam. 8000 rpms will really close up time to open injectors. That might force rpm limiter lower or lower boost. FIC has no limiter and I dont want to send calibrations back and forth messing with rev limiter. Cams and dry double edge sword. More air at high rpms and more total rpms.

    It is possible total fuel at 25 psi is +10% which would give me up to +30% at a 88% duty. I think just the rpm change eats that up alone to 8000 rpms. 8000rpms or 25 psi boost....
    Last edited by Ondonti; 07-27-2016 at 10:30 PM.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  9. #129
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    What cams do you have?
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC
    2.5 TIII swap is here!

    Project LookOwt
    '91 Daytona ES, 61k original miles, Rick Lozier's old 3.0 nitrous car
    Back to basics, then the mods go back on....

  10. #130
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    What cams do you have?
    I have the old cams I ran years ago plus my idea to shim lifters since no other options exist. I have a different design for threaded adjustable lifters but I don't want to deal with it. Planning on a bigger cam for the Junkyard but possibly the old cam is too large for my needs. Never had them on the dyno over 6200 rpms to see what they do and when they fall off. I don't have a moderate cam grind In my possession.

    BTW the injector code is due to using the wrong AEM FIC. They had to create a special Chrysler version 30-1913 which had some Injector flyback mods. This is for all sbec 2 or later Chryslers.
    Regarding throttle tip in problems,it is possible that I have too much delay on my tps. Datalog I looked at last night shows map signal being ahead of tps. Might not be a fiemware issue. Tuning the accel table still doesn't make sense to me due to lack of Instructions beyond beyond a vague forum post by AEM where they failed to answer follow up questions about what delta TPS means in AEM. That is the sensitivity setting....

    !!!!!!!!Right now my most pressing issue is noise in the AFR signal as the AEM FIC6 sees it. I data logged both the MTXL and FIC6 and there there is noise with the engine running that is exactly the same when the engine is turned off. FIC6 constantly goes up and down about 0.4 AFR which makes reading datalogs not fun. I had been tuning with the high points in mind which throws off everything else (too rich). I don't want to datalog 2 systems and compare for each pull. Turning the radio off doesn't help.
    Last edited by Ondonti; 07-28-2016 at 08:15 AM.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  11. #131
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    BTW this motor ate a piston when running about 220 degrees sitting in line forever and being stupid not turning the fan on. This was at a no prep drags/rolls airport event near Seattle. Car did well but the first hot dig pass hurting a new boltons SS camaro but had a few hiccups due to heat induced detonation. Cold 1/3 mile roll perfect against an rs4 Audi. Hit speed limiter at the end. Then 220 degree dig race against supercharged SRT8 Jeep turned out poorly. I thought about backing out when I noticed the temp at the burnout box but he had called me out.
    Eventually upload videos.

    I swapped rings to new piston as they survived. Didn't clean out intake and a piece of piston was up there and fouled that cylinder near idle on first drive. Picked and blew out debris while inspecting with an Android phone endoscope and now daily driving without taking the head off again.

    Timing is a bit unsafe at high block temps and boost is around 13psi so the car picked up a lot. I was shooting for more and safer boost but I had a battle with misfire due to a failed cap that I only fixed just before the race.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  12. #132
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    Lost hard drive on laptop so this car has been stuck in it's current tune. Was really wanting to push her a few times this year before I go back to working on the Junkyard. Still don't have any engine mods or a higher rev limiter which is disappointing since I know she is so corked up.
    Not sure if my low load tune is worse now or diaphragm in regulator is failing again. BEGI really frustrates me when it comes to communication. Gave up last year getting new material and made one out of neoprene glove.

    Nearly all real fun potential is currently ruined by stock rev limiter
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  13. #133
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Nearly all real fun potential is currently ruined by stock rev limiter
    This is one of the first things me and wowzer will be trying to identify in the 3.0 cals. And soon...
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC
    2.5 TIII swap is here!

    Project LookOwt
    '91 Daytona ES, 61k original miles, Rick Lozier's old 3.0 nitrous car
    Back to basics, then the mods go back on....

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