Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 133

Thread: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

  1. #1
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Warsaw, NY
    Posts
    8,370

    3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    dont bother with all that rising rate crap those who are looking to do a 3L.

    get an AEM FIC/6 30-1910. 6 injector channels, add and subtract timing and pulsewidth. only potential issue? 25psi max. ~370$ shipped new.

    that said, 25psi on a 3l is crazy power, especially if you now have precise control over timing and fuel.

    brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  2. #2
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Antonio,TX
    Posts
    10,796

    Re: The Holset he341 3.0L

    Thats funny because i just suggested FIC to Brent (i have one for my 3.3 project) and he was against it.. But i agree with you.

    Biggest hangup about the FIC is you STILL need a socketed ecu so you can get a cal with a moved rev limiter. The FIC itself cant do that. Some people wouldnt care about the rev limiter, but i sure do.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  3. #3
    Garrett booster
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Niagara Falls Canada
    Posts
    155

    Re: The Holset he341 3.0L

    That price seems a little close to a prebuilt MS2 unit... DIY lists their MS2 prebuilts for $420, and from the sounds of things the MS offers that much more control to justify an extra $50. Or if you buy the Kit to build it yourself, you can have an MS2 for only $265, so from what I've read, the FIC isn't the most cost effective if you like at price/performance.

  4. #4
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Warsaw, NY
    Posts
    8,370

    Re: The Holset he341 3.0L

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    Thats funny because i just suggested FIC to Brent (i have one for my 3.3 project) and he was against it.. But i agree with you.

    Biggest hangup about the FIC is you STILL need a socketed ecu so you can get a cal with a moved rev limiter. The FIC itself cant do that. Some people wouldnt care about the rev limiter, but i sure do.
    chip with the rev limit is cake for 87-91 cars. i dont know if rob found the location for the 92-94 computers. shouldnt be a hard find if all you want is to change the rev limit and most likely the speed limit.

    Quote Originally Posted by bond_bbs View Post
    That price seems a little close to a prebuilt MS2 unit... DIY lists their MS2 prebuilts for $420, and from the sounds of things the MS offers that much more control to justify an extra $50. Or if you buy the Kit to build it yourself, you can have an MS2 for only $265, so from what I've read, the FIC isn't the most cost effective if you like at price/performance.
    MS is harder to get all set up and working like stock. the ease of the FIC is that you can be totally stock up till boost where you can then decrease timing and add fuel and such. your idle will immediately work, you can scale for large injectors with the FIC and have them work like stock etc.

    besides, if i want MS... its going to be MS3.

    the neon guys have good success with them and if you use the SRT-4 version on a obd2 neon, it doesnt trip codes.

    codes on our cars arent that big a deal in most states but 96 and newer stuff have a real hard time in alot of states cause of dumb emissions laws.

    if i had a 3.0L car still, i would use a FIC even if i had access to the cal to change base timing and fuel values. it also has 2 remapper inputs as well that i bet could be used to increase fuel and or reduce timing if a knock detection box was hooked to them.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  5. #5
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Niagara Falls, ON
    Posts
    7,548

    Re: The Holset he341 3.0L

    But ..... .... ... .. Okay you're right, I can't imagine needing more than 25psi
    DD1: '02 T&C Ltd, 3.8 AWD. DD2: '15 Versa Note SV, replacing.. DDx: '14 Versa Note SV << freshly killded :( ....... Projects: '88 Voyager 3.0, Auto with shift kit, timing advance, walker sound FX muffler on 15" pumpers wrapped in 215/65/R15 H rated Nexens.... and a '95 phord escort wagon PnP head << Both may need to go :( ..... I like 3.0s ... so??? ... stop looking at me like I've got two heads!

  6. #6
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Antonio,TX
    Posts
    10,796

    Re: The Holset he341 3.0L

    so from what I've read, the FIC isn't the most cost effective if you like at price/performance.
    True, but the big advantage is in setting it up. With an FIC you only change what you want to change, everything else remains stock. With an MS you go from a 100% working vehicle to a 0% working vehicle and then work your way back up. Im not saying MS is super duper hard.. but FIC is easier.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  7. #7
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Warsaw, NY
    Posts
    8,370

    Re: The Holset he341 3.0L

    dont get me wrong, ms is awesome, especially for the price. but for certain vehicles, id use a FIC. obd2 neon being one of them, and a stock internal mild boosted 3.0L being the other.

    id probably use one on a home brew boosted obd2 subaru 2.5L (like my forester) with STi pistons and connecting rods too. 100$ for the rods and slugs, 100$ for a walbro, some large injectors and a FIC and an intercooler/turbo setup. easy and no maf based wiring swap crap.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  8. #8
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Warsaw, NY
    Posts
    8,370

    Re: The Holset he341 3.0L

    Quote Originally Posted by shayne View Post
    thats awesome man, im glad your stubborn and persevered through this setup you have. now i can copy it, haha.
    watch the timing in boost. thats part of the reason i suggested the AEM FIC. you can reduce timing in boost whereas with just a regulator you cant.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  9. #9
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    2,241

    Re: The Holset he341 3.0L

    .. ed could not get timing control with e manage.. seems like the ecu gets in the way? im curious if the system your ^ ^ suggesting will work better. a stand alone isnt for everyone so having timing and fuel control with a simpler package would be a good thing

  10. #10
    Hybrid booster
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    lower rainland b.c
    Posts
    409

    Re: The Holset he341 3.0L

    i have been doing a lot of reading and it seems as though the fic manipulates the map sensor reading so the computer thinks it needs to reduce timing, but nowhere have i read that it can increase timing so far. i was given an emanage by a friend who had it on his turbo accord, but it seems as though nobody has figured out the timing features for a dodge computer, plus emanage seems to be a bit of a dinosaur in the piggyback world as the new models with new features are taking over. i have to read on to see if i can use my distributors timing sensor to trigger the fic as my motor doesnt use a cam sensor and i need to find out if it can fire a regular coil and distributor setup as the installs i have seen are distributorless. but it would appear after scaling for bigger injectors, i wouldnt need to use a rrr, just afpr, and tune the fueling by changing the duty cycle..
    i am not tech savvy and this piggyback thing is pretty daunting to me, a rrr i can understand pretty well, and thats why im excited ordonti's car is running properly now.

  11. #11
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Warsaw, NY
    Posts
    8,370

    Re: The Holset he341 3.0L

    Quote Originally Posted by shayne View Post
    i have been doing a lot of reading and it seems as though the fic manipulates the map sensor reading so the computer thinks it needs to reduce timing, but nowhere have i read that it can increase timing so far. i was given an emanage by a friend who had it on his turbo accord, but it seems as though nobody has figured out the timing features for a dodge computer, plus emanage seems to be a bit of a dinosaur in the piggyback world as the new models with new features are taking over. i have to read on to see if i can use my distributors timing sensor to trigger the fic as my motor doesnt use a cam sensor and i need to find out if it can fire a regular coil and distributor setup as the installs i have seen are distributorless. but it would appear after scaling for bigger injectors, i wouldnt need to use a rrr, just afpr, and tune the fueling by changing the duty cycle..
    i am not tech savvy and this piggyback thing is pretty daunting to me, a rrr i can understand pretty well, and thats why im excited ordonti's car is running properly now.
    yeah the FIC cant add timing. it doesnt manipulate the map sensor line to change timing though. it intercepts the signals from the distributor and delays them, creating timing retard when needed.

    brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  12. #12
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    7,031

    Re: The Holset he341 3.0L

    So all that thing can do is pull timing...Seems like a lot of expense unless you obtain it Vigo style. I am running 91 octane right now and I turned the boost up a tiny bit more, backed off the RR onset fuel pressure. Still rich.
    We normally 3-4 degrees timing to n/a 3.0's running 87 octane so I think 91 octane and 6 pounds of boost on 12 degrees base timing is so safe its boring.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  13. #13
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Antonio,TX
    Posts
    10,796

    Re: The Holset he341 3.0L

    i have been doing a lot of reading and it seems as though the fic manipulates the map sensor reading so the computer thinks it needs to reduce timing, but nowhere have i read that it can increase timing so far. i was given an emanage by a friend who had it on his turbo accord, but it seems as though nobody has figured out the timing features for a dodge computer, plus emanage seems to be a bit of a dinosaur in the piggyback world as the new models with new features are taking over.
    The fic can modify the map signal the ECU sees to manipulate timing, and on a vehicle with NON-adjustable base timing this is one way to use the FIC to advance timing.. trick the computer into thinking you are under high-ignition-advance conditions at all times and then scale it back as needed with the FIC. This is tuning-intensive and unnecessary for a 3.0..

    Because, on a 3.0 with adjustable base timing, you can just crank in a mile of base ignition timing, and then retard back down to the numbers you want through the software using only the timing maps (whereas if you were heavily modifying the map signal you'd have to heavily modify the fuel maps as well and might pick up all sorts of other little issues with anything else the computer uses map signal as an input for). So, on a 3.0, you CAN effectively advance the timing using the FIC, without NECESSARILY modifying the map signal (although you can still do so if you want).

    The FIC is, from what ive seen, far more capable than the E-manages, and with a few notable exceptions (cant raise rev limits, cant advance timing much or at all on certain apps) it is a lot like having a standalone without the need of having a base map or trying to make it work with factory gauges, etc. As far as i know, the FIC does not *take away* anything you might like about stock engine controls, because whatever you already like, you dont have to change.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  14. #14
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Warsaw, NY
    Posts
    8,370

    Re: The Holset he341 3.0L

    the FIC can do alot more than just modify the timing.

    it INTERCEPTS the actual injector signals and scales them on the fly for larger injectors and then adds pulsewidth with its map sensor when you go into boost.

    you can also modify the MAP sensor signal for various reasons and clamp the signal so that the factory ecu stays happy.

    you can also modify the O2 sensor signals as well to keep things safe in part throttle boost.

    so basically, when you get into boost, the FIC is pretty much running the show, like a standalone more or less. its the best piggyback ive ever seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti
    RRR is actually quite a good solution if you change the VE map and rev limiter on the base cal.
    i agree with this. id also want to change the timing value for 0 vac as well in the anticipation of boost. that alone will be fine for a low boost setup.

    now if you are going to go with the same regulator that you have, its less than the price of the RRR plus the stuff to do a cal to change the VE among other things.

    its probably about the same price to do a FIC and have rob do a cal with no changes other than rev limit and no speed limiter.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  15. #15
    Hybrid booster
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    lower rainland b.c
    Posts
    409

    Re: The Holset he341 3.0L

    i didnt think rob wanted to do anything for the sbecII let alone a full cal. i am wondering if the piggyback debate would be a strong thread on its own rather than confuse up this build thread. im still glad ordonti's car is making him happy now, its gotta feel good after reading 20pages of frustration and anger with parts and tuning woes.

  16. #16
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Antonio,TX
    Posts
    10,796

    Re: The Holset he341 3.0L

    I 2nd the motion to move the piggyback discussion. I hear Brian has magical powers along those lines, even.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  17. #17
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Warsaw, NY
    Posts
    8,370

    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    magical powers engaged lol

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  18. #18
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Niagara Falls, ON
    Posts
    7,548

    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    Wow, how did you do that? Wave your wang?
    DD1: '02 T&C Ltd, 3.8 AWD. DD2: '15 Versa Note SV, replacing.. DDx: '14 Versa Note SV << freshly killded :( ....... Projects: '88 Voyager 3.0, Auto with shift kit, timing advance, walker sound FX muffler on 15" pumpers wrapped in 215/65/R15 H rated Nexens.... and a '95 phord escort wagon PnP head << Both may need to go :( ..... I like 3.0s ... so??? ... stop looking at me like I've got two heads!

  19. #19
    Hybrid booster
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    lower rainland b.c
    Posts
    409

    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    so i understand the idea of advancing the actuall timing waay beyond the norm, and retarding it using the fic to where you want it which may be advanced compared to the stock timing settings. the other thought in my head was it seems as though the fic needs a cam sensor and a crank sensor to see what the rpms are and to manipulate timing via the stock ecm, but my problem is my motor only has a distributor, no cam sensor, or crank sensor. if i drove the cam sensor input with the output signal from my distributor, would it recognize it as a signal to retard for spark. would i need to add a crank sensor to keep the fic happy to identify rpms? just curious how a setup for a 3l would be laid out. the tuneability would be cool to have though i personally have no experience with tuning a car with a computer myself.

  20. #20
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Warsaw, NY
    Posts
    8,370

    Re: 3.0L AEM FIC Discussion

    you would wire the FIC between the distributor connectors and the stock ECU. both the high and low rate signals. it intercepts those signals and delays them so that the stock ecu sees the signals later (ie retarded) but doesnt know, so its happy.

    so yes, you could advance the distributor say, 5 degrees and then take 5 degrees out of the entire FIC timing map so that it appears to be totally stock. then you have 5 degrees to play with as far as adding timing.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. AEM wideband 02 $199
    By glhs727 in forum FWD Performance
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-12-2010, 12:10 AM
  2. Aem ems
    By Nemesismachine in forum Electrical & Fuel System
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-01-2010, 04:56 PM
  3. AEM boost controller
    By DocFish in forum Turbos & Intercoolers!
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-24-2009, 02:41 AM
  4. Anyone use a AEM kit?
    By neongary in forum H2O / N2O/ Alky Injection
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-30-2009, 10:21 AM
  5. AEM WB 02 the best bang for the $?
    By Dave in forum Electrical & Fuel System
    Replies: 98
    Last Post: 02-16-2007, 12:12 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •