Staged cams why some work and some dont???

[440dart]

Iam wondering why some of the aftermarket cams people are haveing problems with them??? Every other car out there responds well like the srt,sr20,dsm and they have no problems the factory cams cant be that great so whats the problem do we just have a bunch of cam grinders that dont know what there doing or what??

[turbovanman²]

Why do you say they don't work?

[440dart]

you have posted before that you gained milage and bottom end but power wasnt on par if i remember correctly, been a few others that put there stockers back in and have had extreme low end power loss



"iturbo posted" The cams looked fantastic when I got them back, just like new! Unfortunately I can't say I was ever happy with the performance characteristics of the cams effect on my combo. I think I was partly naive about what they would do since I've never run anything but stock cams on my cars. Basically the problem was that the car had NO low end torque whatsoever


"turbovanman"

Hmmmmmmmm, I seem to also gained MPG but it also seems peppier around town, boost seems ok too until I hit the track then its just not making the power. Also, I used to launch violently, my friends commented on that yesterday, it would come out of the hole hard, now, nope. I think these engines like the stock cams, they are low duration so maybe we need more lift but less duration. IIRC correctly, mine are like .380" lift and 280 duration.

I vote option 3, my stockers are going back in very soon and praying for sun or dry weather the last couple of street legals.


"30psishadow"

running stage 2 cams with lash caps. Retarded intake 4 degrees and advanced exhaust 1 degree. Laggy on the bottom,till 4k then explodes for huge top end. Vac at idle is 12in.(ran best all around) If i run them straight up, vac is like 5in. and stalls coming up to a light. bottom end does not improve.
Still dont have them degreed, but moving them around alot, doesnt affect very much. Never drove a T3 with stock cams,so no comment. My 8v CSX is more drivable though.
thinking of building another top end combo this winter, so cam choice will be stock or other grind.

[turbovanman²]

LOL, well I changed my mind, I really like the Stage II's, I just felt I needed to go back to stock because I was having spooling issues with my turbo. Now if I had a .63 housing and a cut out, I am sure could easily spool it. I miss the bottom end, they were better around town than the stockers for sure. I am also sure that if I'd had a bit more time, I could have run a 12 sec run at around 18-20 psi. The idle I could deal with but for a 5 speed car, they'd be a much better match.

Not sure why iTurbo had issues with his, can't remember if they are LW or Delta's as I know Delta's RV cam's suck.

LW' and FWD's stage I's seem to be just fine, although most seem to with stock grinds as nobody want's to experiment, and my assumption is changing them out requires a head removal, so why chance it.

[iTurbo]

I had LWP stage I in my red Spirit R/T. I gotta say I was never happy with them, not even close. Maybe the profile was messed up, or maybe they were actually stage II or something. Car ran great at WOT, but had really crappy driveability, NO low end torque, very low idle vacuum (10-12 in/hg), and detonated with anything over 8 psi no matter what unless I put 100 octane in. I also had FWDP adjustable cam gears and got really good at centerlining them with Wallaces suggestions and a lot of experimentation but nothing seemed to help much.

Then I had a rocker sieze and it wiped out one of the lobes so I will very happily be putting stock cams back in. I do have a set of FWDP stage I cams and I'm eager to try those out when the time comes for my Omni.

[440dart]

I guess i just dont understand why they dont work, they work in everything else, i really want to go with a lumpy sounding cam like this in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpegB...eature=related

[Directconnection]

I had LWP stage I in my red Spirit R/T. I gotta say I was never happy with them, not even close. Maybe the profile was messed up, or maybe they were actually stage II or something. Car ran great at WOT, but had really crappy driveability, NO low end torque, very low idle vacuum (10-12 in/hg), and detonated with anything over 8 psi no matter what unless I put 100 octane in. I also had FWDP adjustable cam gears and got really good at centerlining them with Wallaces suggestions and a lot of experimentation but nothing seemed to help much.

Then I had a rocker sieze and it wiped out one of the lobes so I will very happily be putting stock cams back in. I do have a set of FWDP stage I cams and I'm eager to try those out when the time comes for my Omni.

Are FWD-P and LW the same cams? I remember Stephane's R&D reportedly showed great gains with the S1's he tried (whomever they were) on a bone stock T-III car.

I have my own custom "S1" style grind and have been also "scared" to see if they work well, or not.

---------- Post added at 03:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 PM ----------

I guess i just dont understand why they dont work, they work in everything else, i really want to go with a lumpy sounding cam like this in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpegB...eature=related

Who cares if they sound lumpy... might work in our favor in a street race thinking we have a POS car...

Simon can chime in on the person(s) that had issues with the Delta T-III cams, as those had issues, too.

Our T-III's are far and few in between with little R&D into them vs. a DSM, or whatever they are being compared to. So, it's understandable why some things just plain don't work....


10-12" of vacuum ain't cool, though.

[turbovanman²]

Again, if changing cams wasn't so hard, I'd love to try a set of S1's.

As for Delta, yep, there stage 1's cost my friend his engine, we couldn't get anymore than 8-10" IIRC, and due to this, it washed the cylinders down, filled the crankcase with fuel and out went the bottom end. I even tried playing with cam timing, nada. Put some stockers in, 20" with no other changes, except a new bottom end,

Steve, idle vacuum isn't really a big deal, as you can tune for it, I had my idle like butter but my only gripe was cold running, it was rich, but I was working on it. Auto's are more sensitive but a manual car, it shouldn't matter.

[glhs727]

The LW's and FWD stage 1's are not the same or at least not done by the same company. I do not know what LW uses as their profile so I cannot comment as too how close they are to the FWD cams, but I can say that we use a different cam maker for our cams than LW does for their cams.
Delta also offers a stage 1 cam and they do NOT make cams for LW or us. So I think some of the issues people have is who makes their cams. I know another major cam company that tried to make us stage 1 and stage 2 cams years ago. After they F-upped 4 sets of cams, all they could say was tough luck. Still had to pay the $1k PLUS lost 4 sets of cams. They were making a grind that had severe overlap like they were for an NA car not a turbo car. Cars would only make 12 inches of vacuum and no matter what you did it would not idle and ran like crap. the cam maker that does our cams now, understands turbo cam design, and I have nothing but good to say about them and our cams. So remember not all stage 1 cams are alike....

[Directconnection]

The LW's and FWD stage 1's are not the same or at least not done by the same company. I do not know what LW uses as their profile so I cannot comment as too how close they are to the FWD cams, but I can say that we use a different cam maker for our cams than LW does for their cams.
Delta also offers a stage 1 cam and they do NOT make cams for LW or us. So I think some of the issues people have is who makes their cams. I know another major cam company that tried to make us stage 1 and stage 2 cams years ago. After they F-upped 4 sets of cams, all they could say was tough luck. Still had to pay the $1k PLUS lost 4 sets of cams. They were making a grind that had severe overlap like they were for an NA car not a turbo car. Cars would only make 12 inches of vacuum and no matter what you did it would not idle and ran like crap. the cam maker that does our cams now, understands turbo cam design, and I have nothing but good to say about them and our cams. So remember not all stage 1 cams are alike....

Thanks for clarifying. The guy that did mine, we talked quite a bit about turbo cams vs. NA and he was already knowledgable, and being that... he pretty much gave me the exact same thing as a stock cam profile, with the exception of a bit more aggressive ramping even though the valve timing events were to be the same as stock (and a few more thou lift). It was he that initially told me that typically, the OEM does a pretty good job getting things right, so for what I wanted, no sense in dicking with a proven combination.

Cindy, is your profile paterned after Stephane's or was it LW?

[roachjuice]

I guess i just dont understand why they dont work, they work in everything else, i really want to go with a lumpy sounding cam like this in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpegB...eature=related

Hole lee shyt!!! That car scoots!!! I like that lumpy cam sound.

[turbovanman²]

Damn that Audi hauls, 2.2 5 cylinder, 700 hp, 10.19 in the 1/4.

[shadow88]

I recall reading in the Mopar 2.2/2.5 3rd edition about cams, and they said the only cam that made more power was the super 60. It's duration isn't too much more aggressive, but about 70 thou more lift.

My car was notably quicker with the super 60 cam, but with the wear issues, I had to return to a stock roller.

Simon's roller super 60 intrigue me, but I'm just not quite ready to spend the money yet. Maybe in the spring.

[turbovanman²]

I recall reading in the Mopar 2.2/2.5 3rd edition about cams, and they said the only cam that made more power was the super 60. It's duration isn't too much more aggressive, but about 70 thou more lift.

My car was notably quicker with the super 60 cam, but with the wear issues, I had to return to a stock roller.

Simon's roller super 60 intrigue me, but I'm just not quite ready to spend the money yet. Maybe in the spring.

But TIII's are different, lol.

I'll be waiting,

[Lotashelbys]

I have had very good luck with both LWP and FWD S1s. I have a set of LWP S1s in my green car with stock gears and compared to the car with stock cams it runs better in every aspect. It pulls harder from say 2500 to over 8000 than a stock set ever would. Warm idle vacuum is around 16-17". I have put 2 sets of FWD S1s in customers cars and they seem to feel very close to the LWPs. They pulled harder than the stockers did in both cars for sure. The vacuum was very similar to the 16-17 I was getting with the LWPs. I would not hesitate to run either set of cams in any and all stock to 400ish HP TIII cars. From now on if a car needs cam work as in lobe flaking I will just get a set of S1s from FWD as they usually have them in stock.

[440dart]

LOL i care thats why i want it, dsms and srts are pretty close other then the srt is bigger and dsm is smaller with all the technoligy someone cant make a decent cam for a old 90s car is rediculous i guess i should say they just havnt been in the right hand.

Cindy your cams sound promiseing, do you offer stage 2 or 3 ??? if so what are the pros and cons over the stg1

[turbovanman²]

I have had very good luck with both LWP and FWD S1s. I have a set of LWP S1s in my green car with stock gears and compared to the car with stock cams it runs better in every aspect. It pulls harder from say 2500 to over 8000 than a stock set ever would. Warm idle vacuum is around 16-17". I have put 2 sets of FWD S1s in customers cars and they seem to feel very close to the LWPs. They pulled harder than the stockers did in both cars for sure. The vacuum was very similar to the 16-17 I was getting with the LWPs. I would not hesitate to run either set of cams in any and all stock to 400ish HP TIII cars. From now on if a car needs cam work as in lobe flaking I will just get a set of S1s from FWD as they usually have them in stock.

Good info, thanks.

LOL i care thats why i want it, dsms and srts are pretty close other then the srt is bigger and dsm is smaller with all the technoligy someone cant make a decent cam for a old 90s car is rediculous i guess i should say they just havnt been in the right hand.

Cindy your cams sound promiseing, do you offer stage 2 or 3 ??? if so what are the pros and cons over the stg1

She sells stage II, and tri flows, the tri flows are the biggest grind offered so far, I am selling these,

You know the pro's and con's-low vacuum aprox 12", bit of an idle, lash caps needed, you need to tune for them, but honestly, they are wicked cams, especially if your going all out and want to rev the engine.

[tsiconquest88]

Im assuming you dont need adjustable cam gears for the stg 1's? Since im seeing they are doing good im considering a set for my spare head. Be nice if i didnt need adjus gears but if i do thats fine too lol. Jackson- this increase in power in the cars you put them in, was it stock gears or adjustable?

[turbovanman²]

The adjustables are really needed as with head milling, etc, they won't be properly set up but if you don't care, then just run the stockers.

[shadow88]

But TIII's are different, lol.

I'll be waiting,

Whooops! Didn't realize this was the T3 section. Yes, you guys are a unique breed.