Still not right - geniusses needed

[Dave]

Okay my timing is bang on. Bruce Hummel just stopped over and verified that the timing is correct, yet we can't solve my problems.

It spools VERY slow, don't tell me it's the turbo - b/c it's not even hitting boost until 4,000 RPMs. Full boost is achieved by 4,500 RPMs.

In first gear it holds boost fine, but in 2nd gear it falls down to 6psi at a good rate. But holds 6psi. 3rd gear I don't know.

I verified the plugs are gone - okay try a new set Friday when I get paid. I doubt highly that's causing my boost to fall off.

The WG arm is hitting the oil feed line. My guess is the can is just not strong enough to hold the arm closed, include in the fact it's got a source that's preventing it to stay open - that causes extra resistance on the arm. That could cause the boost to fall off. But why in only 2nd gear??? Here's a few pics of how I had to set it up:







I'm very proud of myself to have getting this far. First time pulling the head by myself. I'm glad I got it running and even the timing is right. But I want it to run well.

I really need help guys. Throw any ideas out. I especially need anyone who's swapped in a T3/T04B with a stock '88 Garrett WG can with braided steel lines. Anyone?

-Bryan

[mark]

could the WG arm be rubbing on anything when the engine moves?

is the wg fully closed with slight tension on the rod when its mounted?

you might need an adjustable WG rod ?

sorry if they are obvious questions, just trying to help

[Dave]

Mark, the WG arm is fully closed. I can't close it anymore then it is. Before I installed the head, I put a channel lock on the WG flapper's flange that sits on top the swing valve and rocked it back and forth. It clears everything and sits fine.

I might just need an adj. rod. No biggie if I need one, just rock the engine forward and replace it. But I don't know if that's the problem.

[Stevien1]

You might want to try advancing the cam (using keys are adj cam gear) and see if it helps spool time.

[Dave]

Keys?

[Turbo_Rampage]

Just a suggestion.. When you turned the compressor housing do you think it relieved some of the tension on the waste gate actuator? You can add shims behind the WG bracket to set more tension on the WG arm, but i have never done this.. maybe someone else on here can chime in on this?

Here is a helpful link of where the WG arm should be when its removed off the SV bracket http://www.turbododge.com/forums/sho...threadid=46516

[86Shelby]

1. What are you using for a boost controller?
2. How much tension is on the wastegate rod? How far do you have to pull it out to attach it to the swingvalve?
3. So your cam AND ignition timing are all spot on, correct?
4. The plugs are 'gone'. Explain. broken porcelain? carbon fouled? eroded groud electrode?
5. What is the 'full boost' psi setting?
6. What trim is the turbine wheel? turbine housing A/R?
7. Does it misfire when in boost?
8. is there sufficient clearnace for the wategate rod to fully extend without contacting the oil line?

[Dave]

Just a suggestion.. When you turned the compressor housing do you think it relieved some of the tension on the waste gate actuator?

Doubtful.

A WG can is a pressurized system and works however much air is inside of the solenoid is how far it opens. It has a lot of room to work with.

I am thinking it's the WG can.

Another thing that's wrong with it. This may be outside of this general boost problem, but when brake torquing the engine it only goes to 2,400 RPMs. It hits a wall. It doesn't spit or pop when being held. It builds pretty quick, normal I'd say, but just wont build any additional RPMs. It used to go all the way to 4,200 and I could launch at full boost. Now I don't even build boost at 2,400. And being at WOT it should build full boost. Yet it doesn't.

[Turbo_Rampage]

Doubtful.

A WG can is a pressurized system and works however much air is inside of the solenoid is how far it opens. It has a lot of room to work with.

I am thinking it's the WG can.

Another thing that's wrong with it. This may be outside of this general boost problem, but when brake torquing the engine it only goes to 2,400 RPMs. It hits a wall. It doesn't spit or pop when being held. It builds pretty quick, normal I'd say, but just wont build any additional RPMs. It used to go all the way to 4,200 and I could launch at full boost. Now I don't even build boost at 2,400. And being at WOT it should build full boost. Yet it doesn't.

Yes, but when your car goes into boost the WG spring tension holds the SV flapper shut. If their isn't enough tension on the WG arm the exhaust pressure will push the swing valve flapper open bypassing the turbo... I would try to find a WG can off of an 89 Garrett T2 turbo, because it has more tension.. are shim your current one.

I hope this makes sence

[Dave]

1. What are you using for a boost controller?
2. How much tension is on the wastegate rod? How far do you have to pull it out to attach it to the swingvalve?
3. So your cam AND ignition timing are all spot on, correct?
4. The plugs are 'gone'. Explain. broken porcelain? carbon fouled? eroded groud electrode?
5. What is the 'full boost' psi setting?
6. What trim is the turbine wheel? turbine housing A/R?
7. Does it misfire when in boost?
8. is there sufficient clearnace for the wategate rod to fully extend without contacting the oil line?

1. HP Performance mounted in-cab. 2' of vaccum line on each side. Works fine though. Did many tests, found how to make it work. Spikes by one pound of boost. Other than that works great. Never had many problems before, it was clogged with some dirt before. Perhaps some debris is caught in the vaccum lines?
2. Not much tension. I'd say normal. Same as always.
3. Cam and ignition timing is bang on. I have pics. Want 'em? Ignition timing is on 12*.
4. The plugs' electrodes were rounded and the porcelain looked a little heavy rich, could've been because I had starting issues when unplugging the coolant temp. sensor for timing.
5. Full boost is 13psi.
6. Turbo is: T3/T04B 50 trim, stock .42 A/R compressor housing machined to hold a Super 50 wheel with an upgraded .63 A/R turbine housing outside of a S2 wheel, hooked to a 2.5" SV
7. Doesn't misfire while at WOT. In boost at part throttle, yes, it misses. Not bad though. Just Turbo-Mopar normal.
8. One of the things I made sure of. What if the WG arm needed to extend fully out? I tried it with the channel lock and moved the WG all the way to fully open and it still had almost an 1/8" to clear.

Thanks guys. This is jogging my mind a little. I'm thinking weak WG can still. Add that to a resistance posed from the oil feed line's elbow, it makes it even weaker. Especially in a heavier gear that puts the motor on more of a load, making it want to develop more boost.

[Turbo_Rampage]

Keys?

He is talking about these:
http://www.fwdperformance.com/Store/...&ProductID=215
I would just save up the extra 80 dollars and buy the fidanza adjustable cam sprocket

[cordes]

What are you doing for a cal? my omni spools a lot better now with a hbrid than it did before I got my cal running right.

Also, you are not far off from were my turbo that is quite similar to yours spools in my shadow while running a FWD stg. 5 cal. It could definatly be sooner though.

I would use the extra head bolt washers that you probably have lying around from the MP head bolts to shim the WG can if it is not already.

[Dave]

Cordes - I'll try shimming it and see what happens.

The setup in my sig is was I got. FWD P. S3 cal.

[mw6886]

T04B? That could be part of your problem.

Spooling by 4500 I would say is somewhat normal without any head/intake work.

Not being able to hold boost - definitely a small WG can problem.

HTH

[TrrboJeep]

Bryan, disconnect the rod off of the waste gate, and wrap some wire around it and hard wire it closed to something nearby. Make sure it is good and tight and cannot move. Then "CAREFULLY" take it for a drive. If the boost hits sooner, and builds quicker, then you know without a doubt it's your can!

[Keito]

Bryan, disconnect the rod off of the waste gate, and wrap some wire around it and hard wire it closed to something nearby. Make sure it is good and tight and cannot move. Then "CAREFULLY" take it for a drive. If the boost hits sooner, and builds quicker, then you know without a doubt it's your can!

Agree. This will verify the can is weak.
Be careful.
When the hose fell off the wastegate can on my GLH, it was 25 psi,
instantly.

[Clay]

Doubtful.

Dont doubt it. According to Chris @ TU if you have the housing turned one way or the other to much, you can/will effect the operation of the WG arm due to it not having full tension on the flapper valve.

I talked to him about this when I installed my oil and coolant lines, and had put a TII compressor housing on a TI turbo. He said to make sure its in the right spot or you can have problems with the WG operation.

[TrrboJeep]

Dont doubt it. According to Chris @ TU if you have the housing turned one way or the other to much, you can/will effect the operation of the WG arm due to it not having full tension on the flapper valve.

Agreed. From the pictures it looks like it is clocked right though, but pictures can be deceiving.

[puppet]

That's quite a stack of fittings under that oil elbow ... geez. Too bad you couldn't get that line under the rod.

[contraption22]

" Turbo is: T3/T04B 50 trim, stock .42 A/R compressor housing machined to hold a Super 50 wheel with an upgraded .63 A/R turbine housing outside of a S2 wheel, hooked to a 2.5" SV"

Ok the above statement has me pretty confused. Is it a T04B wheel? Are you sure? The reason I ask is because a Turbonetics Super50 wheel is a TO4E wheel.

There is one of your problems. This combination sucks. Don't put a big compressor wheel in a small compressor housing. I think I warned you about that. Remember this?
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...9&postcount=13

Pile on top of a turbo that spools crappy to begin with, if I'm not mistaken you are still using stock head, manifolds and intercooler, correct?

I'd be willing to bet there is nothing "wrong" with your car persay, just a poor combination of components.