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Thread: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

  1. #41
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Really? I haven't had the dash out of the '89. But, the '90 I just sold had a massive 1" thick bundle of wires going across the back of the dash with a bunch of pigtails coming out of it. I figure I only need the ignition and lights circuits, fuel pump, water pump, fan, and at least 1 aux power point for my laptop. Radio, AC, cluster wiring, steering column, turn signals, etc are all going to be deleted. I'm even thinking about ditching the stock fuse box in favor of panel fuses. I would re-use the bulkhead connector just becuase it has everything that I need in it, plus a couple of empty slots so I can move the water pump and fan circuits over to it. At least, that's my idea.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Maybe the 87 Harness has less stuff, mine didnt seem to be too much

    JT
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  3. #43
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post

    The weight reduction stuff is to try and counter the added weight of the roll bar. As it is, I run the car about 100lbs heavy; all the 'extra' weight is on the front end for traction. I have 100lb ballast box in the RF engine bay, and a 50lb bar at the bottom of the rad support. I have taken the 50 off before, but I lose 60' time when I do. If I take 50 out of the box, I get wheel spin on the RH side (even with a phantom grip).

    As for the suspension, I have some different ideas about how to make it work. I originally had Mopar rally springs on the rear with the Carrera adjustable shocks. Still have the shocks, but I went to Eibach lowering springs all around. Dropped the CG of the car about 2" and picked up a little in short time. I have a traction bar idea for the front end that I want to try (borrowing an idea from Warren's car - not sure if he still runs it).[COLOR="Silver"]
    Rob is your front sway bar still stock?

  4. #44
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Stock for an '89 C/S, yes. 1-1/4" bar.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
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  5. #45
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    I suspected when you stated you had to run more weight on the right side. I have to suggest adding endlinks to it. The stock bushings bind up whenever the a-arms move and will unload one tire or the other. Here's how I did mine: http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/v/Me...Bar+End+Links/ click on the pics for part #'s and some comments. I've moved this bar from my Daytona that had SS sphercial bearing a-arms to my New Yorker that has stock worn out 89 dual pivot bushings and each will spin both tires equally for as long as I can keep it going. It's a bit unnerving on loose surfaces like gravel or snow as the car will just slide the nose sideways if there's any type of slope to the road. I think it might allow you to get rid of the 50lb right side ballast.

  6. #46
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    I suspected when you stated you had to run more weight on the right side. I have to suggest adding endlinks to it. The stock bushings bind up whenever the a-arms move and will unload one tire or the other. Here's how I did mine: http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/v/Me...Bar+End+Links/ click on the pics for part #'s and some comments. I've moved this bar from my Daytona that had SS sphercial bearing a-arms to my New Yorker that has stock worn out 89 dual pivot bushings and each will spin both tires equally for as long as I can keep it going. It's a bit unnerving on loose surfaces like gravel or snow as the car will just slide the nose sideways if there's any type of slope to the road. I think it might allow you to get rid of the 50lb right side ballast.
    You know I had seen that writeup and it was on my list of things to do this winter. Early on with this car, I had shimmed the front swaybar to try and balance the weight on the front tires (a buddy at work races circle track and has a set of corner scales). I got the fronts balanced, but the rears were then WAY off. It then spun the drivers side tire really bad. I kept removing shims to correct it until there was almost no shim. In the end I took them out and ballasted the RF to try and balance the front end.

    I have a spare 1-1/4" bar that's getting the end-link treatment along with Warren's traction bar setup. If you haven't seen it, you should check it out. Basically, it transmits engine torque to directly put vertical force on the front tires - exactly what traction bars do on a live axle rear. I suspect it will also have the effect of slightly lifting the front end.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
    tuning wiki

  7. #47
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Looks like you have alot of work ahead of you, your well on your way,

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    Correct. I've thought about a header, but I don't know what good it would do with a Mitsu turbo on there. Other than make it more accessable. And, honestly, I can get the turbo off in about 20minutes without the brake booster or P/S pump on there. I don't really see much advantage to a header for this setup.
    I think it will make a difference, but that's just me,
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  8. #48
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    I think it will make a difference, but that's just me,
    The only difference I can see a header making is in equalizing the flow and power in each cylinder...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
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  9. #49
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    The only difference I can see a header making is in equalizing the flow and power in each cylinder...
    I pretty much agree. Anything but a equal-length tubular-type header is a waste of time/money at stock/mild power levels. Have you ported the exhaust mani yet? That will help as much as a log header IMO.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  10. #50
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    Have you ported the exhaust mani yet?
    Stock class rules are wierd... not sure you can port a manifold, but for a turbo application you can use a header or something like that?

    I might have an equal length header to load out for B2B testing

    JT
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  11. #51
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    You know I had seen that writeup and it was on my list of things to do this winter. Early on with this car, I had shimmed the front swaybar to try and balance the weight on the front tires (a buddy at work races circle track and has a set of corner scales). I got the fronts balanced, but the rears were then WAY off. It then spun the drivers side tire really bad. I kept removing shims to correct it until there was almost no shim. In the end I took them out and ballasted the RF to try and balance the front end.

    I have a spare 1-1/4" bar that's getting the end-link treatment along with Warren's traction bar setup. If you haven't seen it, you should check it out. Basically, it transmits engine torque to directly put vertical force on the front tires - exactly what traction bars do on a live axle rear. I suspect it will also have the effect of slightly lifting the front end.
    Yea you can shim to get corner weights right but when the front end lifts the bar binds up in the stock bushings and throws that all to hell. That's the problem with the stock setup is the binding when the suspension moves. I didn't think it made that big of a difference until I end linked my bar. OMG so much better.

    I've seen warrens setup, neat idea, not sure if it would work for me as I'm more of a road racer guy.

  12. #52
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Would you guys mind giving me a link to Warrens setup? Haven't seen it. Thanks Phil

  13. #53
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Quote Originally Posted by hosey View Post
    Would you guys mind giving me a link to Warrens setup? Haven't seen it. Thanks Phil
    Not sure if he has any pics of it up here. I don't think he's currently running it (he plated the motor with his current setup). Here are the pics of it that I have...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    As the engine rocks back under torque, it pushes the swaybar (and therefore the wheels) down to the ground...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
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  14. #54
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Thanks Rob. Interesting thread. Phil

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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    I pretty much agree. Anything but a equal-length tubular-type header is a waste of time/money at stock/mild power levels. Have you ported the exhaust mani yet? That will help as much as a log header IMO.
    Oops, missed this - yes, you can port the exhamust mani in stock, and I have ported it. Ported the O2 housing also (would be called a swingvalve if this was a Garret turbo car).

    ---------- Post added at 08:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    Stock class rules are wierd... not sure you can port a manifold, but for a turbo application you can use a header or something like that?

    I might have an equal length header to load out for B2B testing
    Exhaust manifold is open - can use a header, or ported stocker, etc. The turbo cannot be ported. I'm open to testing your header as long as it has a Chrysler flange and won't cause me too many headaches with the intake plumbing...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
    tuning wiki

  16. #56
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    Exhaust manifold is open - can use a header, or ported stocker, etc. The turbo cannot be ported. I'm open to testing your header as long as it has a Chrysler flange and won't cause me too many headaches with the intake plumbing...
    Do you have to run the stock airbox/hoses? That would be the only issue other than custom oil and coolant feed/drain lines

    JT
    SDAC Director
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    JOIN SDAC and your local Chapter TODAY! - SUPPORT the CLUB that supports YOUR HOBBY!
    87 Shelby Z - 10.50@141.66mph
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  17. #57
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    Do you have to run the stock airbox/hoses? That would be the only issue other than custom oil and coolant feed/drain lines
    I don't have to, but I do. Well, not stock - I cut the top off the airfilter housing so that the element is fully open to the underhood air.

    How far does it move the turbo?
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
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  18. #58
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Opening up the way back machine now, here's some stuff from when I got the car and started converting it to a 'real' race car.



    About 2006, I deleted the power steering using a K-Car manual rack; I deleted the power brake booster, I added an aftermarket bobble strut (the like of which I've never seen before or since), and more recently I made a shorty exhaust.

    Up first, the manual rack stuff (re-posted from my original thread...):

    I wanted to convert my Daytona to manual steering to save weight and a little power. Finding a rebuilt manual rack was no problem. I got mine off of eBay for $50 shipped. They come up from time to time. You can even get a rebuilt one from Napa or the like, but for significantly more money.

    The problem is, the manual rack uses a unique coupler (different from the power racks). And, the coupler is not available new from Mopar (or anywhere else). I searched the boneyards for a used one (even through an on-line search). And came up with nothing. So, I did a little research into our manual coupler. It turns out, the rack spline is common with the Pinto/Mustang II manual rack (9/16" OD x 26 splines). And, there are a ton of aftermarket, steel and aluminum couplers available that fit that spline. But, the upper portion of the u-joint is obviously different. As luck would have it, the u-joint and needle bearings just happen to be the same as stock in several of the aftermarket couplers. So, it's simply a matter of carefully dis-assembling both the Chrysler and aftermarket coupler U-joints, and then putting the aftermarket lower end on the Chrysler upper end.

    The coupler I bought was made by Borgesson, but there are others. The Borgesson uses the same Torrington needle bearing (P/N 59500) and "T" as the stock Chrysler part. I think they must be standard Torrington parts. The Borgesson coupler does not have the "D" feature on the spline that the rack has. But, that won't keep the coupler from going onto the rack. It will, however, make it harder to center your steering. You will have to carefully find the center of the rack, and center the steering wheel before slipping the coupler onto the rack. The "D" takes care of that in the stock coupler. The set-screw on the Borgesson coupler fits perfectly into the groove previously used for the roll pin.

    The bearings for the Chrysler coupler are staked in place. Which makes them difficult to remove. Since I had no need for the bottom yoke when I was done, I disassembled the original Chrysler u-joint by simply cutting the bottom yoke loops. That left the "T" and bearings attached to the original upper. The Borgesson coupler also was staked together (you can see the stake divets in the pictures). But, in this case, I needed the lower yoke to be re-useable. So, I carefully ground the stake divets with my dremel tool. Once they were ground down far enoguh, I pushed out the bearings with a similarly sized socket and hammer. A press would be better, but I didn't have access to one at the time. There are also aftermarket couplers that hold the bearings in place with a small screw. Which would be much easier to use for this conversion. After I had the lower yoke free, I put the Borgesson lower onto the Chrysler upper and staked it back together. Make sure to take all of the side play out of the bearings. If you don't, it will show up as steering wheel slop.

    That's basically it. I didn't take enough pictures of the conversion. It went too fast. I had the new coupler together and on the car in less than an hour. I do have some pics of the completed installation that I'll dig up and post later.


    ---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------

    And, here's the manual brake booster conversion (circa 2006):

    I modified the manual brake conversion kit from Mopar Performance to work with the Daytona. I had to make an adapter plate, shorten the pushrod, and eventually modify the pedal to raise the pivot point. I used the master cylinder from a manual brake Omni. The booster alone weighs 8lbs; without it in the way it's much easier to get at the turbo for when I have to pull it.



    ---------- Post added at 04:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 PM ----------

    Also circa 2006, I converted a Neon shifter for use with my RMVB by cutting the gates for 1-2-D.

    I prefer the Neon shifter because it has a roller detent separate from the gate. So, after cutting the gate it still has a positive feel in each gear. Plus, it's a T-Handle shifter (unlike the original TD shifter with the button on top).

    The roller detent is visible in the 2nd pic.

    I sketched in red approximately where the original gate was on the Neon shifter. I didn't get any before pictures.

    I used a Neon arm on the trans. It uses a different mount from the TD cable.

    To mount the neon shifter on the Daytona base plate, I had to drill 2 holes. 1 at the rear for the locating tab, and 1 at the front for the bolt. Only 3 of the 4 Daytona shifter mounts would line up. The 4th mount is under the main body of the Neon shifter - no access. It seems to be fine with only 3 mounting bolts, though.

    I removed all of the Neon plastic parts, but you don't have to. Just adapt it to the console in your TD. I converetd my car from 5-speed to auto, so I kept the 5-speed console and made a gate for the shifter out of textured ABS. The original 5-speed boot interfered with the shifter in P and 1. I'm going to put some letters on the plastic gate to indicate the gears.
    Also, I carved a notch in the bottom of the T-handle and mounted the line-lock button there (not pictured).



    ---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 PM ----------

    OK, this is my bobble strut setup from the original post back in '06...

    I found this Moog torque strut kit on eBay for ~$15 and thought I'd give it a try to see if I could use any of it to make a torque strut for my A413/Daytona. Has anyone else ever seen or used this kit before?

    I doubt I'll use the damper - I'll just put a solid link in it's place. But the bracket looks good. Looks like it'll simply replace the support bracket from the engine to the trans. Don't know if it'll line up with the bracket on the k-frame, but I'll find out this weekend. The kit says it's for '84, 2.2L, non-turbo engines, but I don't see why it won't work fine on a turbo engine, that support bracket is the same I'm pretty sure.
    Been running this ever since and it works great...

    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
    tuning wiki

  19. #59
    Hybrid booster Khajjathefang's Avatar
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    Yeah, that might work. Didn't realize you were usingt he Fox kit, but wasn't sure if CE made a G-body kit. I'm definitely interested in seeing pics of the kit pre-install. Wonder if it would work in a P-body as I havn't seen any kits for those.

    I prolly have a hundred more pics of my S&W kit install than are on the BAP site, so LMK if you want to see anything specific.

    EDIT - added a pic. One thing the kit did do (which I think the fox kit does also) is bend in at the bottom to get past the sill to the floor.
    I have an autopower bar from IOport. IIRC they offered it in 6 and 10 point (I went 4) and it was g body specific

    ---------- Post added at 04:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    Wow, I guess CM, kits are lighter... I think my 8pt ended up at 97lbs including filler rod

    Not that much wiring harness back there...

    Carpet is HEAVY! I think by switching from stock to the ACC I have you're about righ ton the savings, maybe more?
    acc??

  20. #60
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: '89 Daytona C/S NHRA Stocker

    OK, one more... Here's the box I'm currently using for ballast...

    Here's the sketch I made when I had a weight box built for my Daytona race car ~2 years ago. Originally, I was going to use this as a fuel tank (I calculated the volume at ~2gal), but NHRA wouldn't let me re-locate the tank to the front for stock class. So, I made it a weight box instead. It fits on the RF side, above where the carbon canister is mounted (you have to remove the CC to fit this in). It fits just under the rad support. The 3 mounting points go to the fender support, the rad support and the frame rail/bumper support. I'll try to post some pics of it installed in my car. As a weight box, it cost about $150 to have it fabricated.
    WeightBox.pdf
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
    tuning wiki

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