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Thread: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

  1. #41
    turbo addict Tony Hanna's Avatar
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    I finally got my trans apart. Looks like the shock load from the excessive line pressure (maybe combined with loose clearances?) caused the fwd drum to fail at the snap ring groove. I think I'm going to cut a coil off of the line pressure spring so I can start with it low and raise it a little at a time until I get it where I want it since the adjuster was pretty close to all the way loose and the pressure was still too high.

  2. #42
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Hanna View Post
    I finally got my trans apart. Looks like the shock load from the excessive line pressure (maybe combined with loose clearances?) caused the fwd drum to fail at the snap ring groove. I think I'm going to cut a coil off of the line pressure spring so I can start with it low and raise it a little at a time until I get it where I want it since the adjuster was pretty close to all the way loose and the pressure was still too high.
    If you put the adjuster back to the stock setting, rebuild the drums and set the clearances properly, you shouldn't have any issues. I've got aprox 10K on this mod and no issues, even had it apart to replace the broken output shaft and checked my clutches, perfect,
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  3. #43
    turbo addict Tony Hanna's Avatar
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    If you put the adjuster back to the stock setting, rebuild the drums and set the clearances properly, you shouldn't have any issues. I've got aprox 10K on this mod and no issues, even had it apart to replace the broken output shaft and checked my clutches, perfect,
    The first time around I started out with a 1/16" bleed and the adjuster at the stock setting and it was shifting really harsh and would hit the rev limiter at WOT without upshifting. I was backing the line pressure adjustment off a little at a time trying to get the shift points and harsh shifting under control when it broke. That's got me a little scared of trying it like that again. I believe I'd rather start with the line pressure too low and work up to where it needs to be this time. With the way it acted, I do wonder if maybe the damn regulator isn't stuck. I guess that could explain why I had trouble with this mod when everybody else is having such good luck with it.

  4. #44
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Hanna View Post
    The first time around I started out with a 1/16" bleed and the adjuster at the stock setting and it was shifting really harsh and would hit the rev limiter at WOT without upshifting. I was backing the line pressure adjustment off a little at a time trying to get the shift points and harsh shifting under control when it broke. That's got me a little scared of trying it like that again. I believe I'd rather start with the line pressure too low and work up to where it needs to be this time. With the way it acted, I do wonder if maybe the damn regulator isn't stuck. I guess that could explain why I had trouble with this mod when everybody else is having such good luck with it.
    I would say you've got an issue with the regulator valve, it could be sticking or maybe someone put a stiffer spring in. Your the first so far thats had issues. I used a 1/16 hole too.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    I have a question about this mod.
    Does it accompany another mod/shift kit?
    If so, which one?
    Paul Smith's page?
    Other vendor?
    I am fixing an A 413 and putting a ford spring in my diff and want to beef up/get it shifting like you guys describe here....
    Thanks!

    paul

  6. #46
    turbo addict Tony Hanna's Avatar
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    Quote Originally Posted by pauly_no_van View Post
    I have a question about this mod.
    Does it accompany another mod/shift kit?
    If so, which one?
    Paul Smith's page?
    Other vendor?
    I am fixing an A 413 and putting a ford spring in my diff and want to beef up/get it shifting like you guys describe here....
    Thanks!

    paul
    Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but this mod should be usable with or without any shift kit you want to use. It simply allows you greater range when raising line pressure without having to mess with swapping springs.
    I finally got mine sorted out and it shifts nice and firm without being as harsh as it was before. I also filled the small governor weight with solder to increase the weight and drop the shift points (handy because I can drill solder out as needed to fine tune the shift points).

  7. #47
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Hanna View Post
    Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but this mod should be usable with or without any shift kit you want to use. It simply allows you greater range when raising line pressure without having to mess with swapping springs.
    I finally got mine sorted out and it shifts nice and firm without being as harsh as it was before. I also filled the small governor weight with solder to increase the weight and drop the shift points (handy because I can drill solder out as needed to fine tune the shift points).
    Thanks!
    So I will start by leaving in the accumulator then.
    I'll drill a hole/tap for a plug in the side of the case so I can adjust the pressure as needed.
    I have an n/a tranny that I'm told has the governor sought after by turbo guys wanting to change shift pattern/timing... Is that a good move too?

  8. #48
    turbo addict Tony Hanna's Avatar
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    Quote Originally Posted by pauly_no_van View Post
    I have an n/a tranny that I'm told has the governor sought after by turbo guys wanting to change shift pattern/timing... Is that a good move too?
    I'd try it w/the stock governor weights first to get an idea of where it shifts. If it shifts too late (or not at all at full throttle) then you could try the solid small weight to lower shift points some. Simon mentioned (post #27 in this thread) that his shifts happened in the normal spot with this mod, but mine were happening way late for some reason.

  9. #49
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    Quote Originally Posted by pauly_no_van View Post
    I have a question about this mod.
    Does it accompany another mod/shift kit?
    If so, which one?
    Paul Smith's page?
    Other vendor?
    I am fixing an A 413 and putting a ford spring in my diff and want to beef up/get it shifting like you guys describe here....
    Thanks!

    paul
    Don't use that Ford spring, it will make a mess and cause more damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Hanna View Post
    I'd try it w/the stock governor weights first to get an idea of where it shifts. If it shifts too late (or not at all at full throttle) then you could try the solid small weight to lower shift points some. Simon mentioned (post #27 in this thread) that his shifts happened in the normal spot with this mod, but mine were happening way late for some reason.
    You were having issues with shifting or redline shifts???

    My bad, I did notice the bleed did increase my redline shifts a few hundred rpm.
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    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    Don't use that Ford spring, it will make a mess and cause more damage.
    Hi,

    Can you please explain?
    thanks,

    paul

  11. #51
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    Quote Originally Posted by pauly_no_van View Post
    Hi,

    Can you please explain?
    thanks,

    paul
    They don't work, come apart and fill the trans full of metal. Ask Roadwarrior.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

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  12. #52
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    Yup it "assploded", took chips out of my ring gear, a chunk out of the diff carrier, and punched a quarter sized hole in the case, and ate and shredded a "diffsaver" tab. That was at approx 20 mph under 2000rpm lightly on the gas when it clipped a pothole. The shrapnel appeared to be mild steel now, soft, not spring steel, so it probably changed temper under heat stress. I was probably only able to get the tranny useable again for another year and about 20K miles because it happened at low speed, not a lot of debris got out of the diff area. Had it happened at highway speeds, I think there would have been multiple case breaches, and you'd have been lucky to even be able to re-use the axles and kickdown rod again.

    It did work a bit, about the same as a Phantom Grip without the spring upgrade package. I used the 7.5" Ranger spring, which is now discontinued. I was doubtful about the quality of the springs I got, because one broke trying to get it in the diff and along the break there were bubbles and voids in the metal. I thought at the time "oh, thank god that one didn't go in..." but I guess the one that went in could have been just has bad. I might experiment with the larger springs at some point in the future... just not in my DD again.

    I have heard in general that this type of LSD (spring biased friction plate) is bad for "fast street" type driving, because of heat issues. The guys who have had good luck with them seem to have had light cars and ran strip.

  13. #53
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    Quote Originally Posted by RoadWarrior222 View Post
    Yup it "assploded", took chips out of my ring gear, a chunk out of the diff carrier, and punched a quarter sized hole in the case, and ate and shredded a "diffsaver" tab. That was at approx 20 mph under 2000rpm lightly on the gas when it clipped a pothole. The shrapnel appeared to be mild steel now, soft, not spring steel, so it probably changed temper under heat stress. I was probably only able to get the tranny useable again for another year and about 20K miles because it happened at low speed, not a lot of debris got out of the diff area. Had it happened at highway speeds, I think there would have been multiple case breaches, and you'd have been lucky to even be able to re-use the axles and kickdown rod again.

    It did work a bit, about the same as a Phantom Grip without the spring upgrade package. I used the 7.5" Ranger spring, which is now discontinued. I was doubtful about the quality of the springs I got, because one broke trying to get it in the diff and along the break there were bubbles and voids in the metal. I thought at the time "oh, thank god that one didn't go in..." but I guess the one that went in could have been just has bad. I might experiment with the larger springs at some point in the future... just not in my DD again.

    I have heard in general that this type of LSD (spring biased friction plate) is bad for "fast street" type driving, because of heat issues. The guys who have had good luck with them seem to have had light cars and ran strip.
    Thanks ! ! !
    I took that spring out and modded the swaybar instead...
    It has more traction with polyurethane bushings[4] now, and handles speed bumps better and more quietly.

  14. #54
    boostaholic bfarroo's Avatar
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    From what I'm reading this mod will affect WOT shift points like any other line pressure mod requiring weight modifications to the governor weights.
    Last edited by bfarroo; 09-24-2009 at 08:41 PM.

  15. #55
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    Quote Originally Posted by bfarroo View Post
    From what I'm reading this mod will affect WOT ---- points like any other line pressure mod requiring weight modifications to the governor weights.
    Not as much as messing with the regulator.
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  16. #56
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    Quote Originally Posted by pauly_no_van View Post
    Thanks ! ! !
    I took that spring out and modded the swaybar instead...
    It has more traction with polyurethane bushings[4] now, and handles speed bumps better and more quietly.
    Is that my sway bar mod? With end links? That mod seems to be getting pretty popular. Funny no one believes me when I say after modding the sway bar both tires sping and a posi is almost useless.

  17. #57
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    Curious thought, I'm planning a Turbo buildup with an A413 turbo spec tranny. What would be some simple mods to help it handle the added power (going with a T2/T3 hybrid turbo @ 14psi, T2 rad/cooler etc)?

  18. #58
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3180

    In an nutshell-

    Tighten up the clutch packs
    Install the Sonnax governor kit and rear band strut
    Valve body mods
    Higher line pressure and then grind the center out of the little governor weight so the 1-2 shift is later.
    Remove the accumulator.
    Add drain plug to the pan.
    Add one more disc to the rear clutch pack by using A404 steels-they are thinner.
    Get a large trans cooler.
    LSD or get the Mopar ears to stop the diff pin from shooting out.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
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    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

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  19. #59
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    For the sake of curiosity, how would a bone stock turbo tranny hold out? Would it eventually implode from the added torque? What factor really causes the most trans failures?

  20. #60
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    Re: Line pressure mod in valve body and theory

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCanadian007 View Post
    For the sake of curiosity, how would a bone stock turbo tranny hold out? Would it eventually implode from the added torque? What factor really causes the most trans failures?
    The biggest issue with a stock trans is line pressure and clutch pack clearance. If you don't want to rebuild, then remove the accumulator and valve body mods which can be done in the car. Turn up the line pressure a few turns but that's it.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

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