1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse (turbo)

[iTurbo]

So yesterday I went to try a new Mexican restaurant in town. After I put in my carry-out order, the kid behind the counter asks me if I'm the guy that owns that 'red' car. I thought he was talking about my CSRT that I happened to be driving at the time (it's actually orange), but it turns out he meant my Shelby Lancer and right away he's asking me if it's for sale etc....ha I gotta say I was surprised. It is cosmetically challenged to say the least with 90% if the clearcoat missing. So after telling him that I could probably never bring myself to sell that car because me and her go way back, we start talking about his car and some of the problems it's got. Turns out it's a '96 Mitsubishi Eclipse with the 4G63T. He tells me it has an exhaust leak, it's slow as hell, and the aftermarket BOV doesn't make any noise (lols). So I tell him to bring it by the apartments about a block away where I live.

Today he comes by with his other car (a nicely modded 350Z) while I'm putting the CSX together. After talking a while, he leaves and comes back with the Eclipse and a few of his friends. Right away they are looking at a few of my cars, and to my surprised they seemed to be most interested in the SL (?!), although I tell them straight up that the CSRT blows away all my other cars. One of the guys apparently owns an STI, and they were kind of hinting around they wanted a ride in the CSRT. So we all get in the CSRT and I show them what it can do....I think they were pretty shocked and I think I scared the guy riding shotgun lol as the CSRT ripped the tires loose through 2nd and a good chunk of third as I punched it up a fairly steep hill and they momentarily loss contact with their seat bottoms as I hit the summit.

So anyways, we go back to my place and start looking over the Eclipse. He pops the hood and I can see that the car has a big FMIC, Greddy Type S BOV, and an aftermarket 4-1 tubular header. The turbo appears to be stock Garrett T25. We take a drive in it and sure enough it is slow as hell. I don't think it was making any boost at all actually. After getting back from a short test drive, I can see that it has an exhaust leak at both the manifold flange and the turbine inlet flange. Unfortunately whoever installed the header used RTV (lots) on the exhaust manifold gasket which is undoubtedly making things a lot worse. Then I notice that I can actually SEE a gap between the header and turbine housing because the bolts are that loose. Geez....

So right now I'm waiting for the car to cool off enough that I can get my hands in there and tighten up some of the bolts. Do you guys that know anything about the $G63 tell me where to look as far as why this isn't making any boost? It doesn't seem to smoke other than the little bit due to the exhaust leak. You can BARELY hear the BOV which is dumping to atmosphere...probably because it isn't making any boost anyway. I told him that we could try using a MBC instead of the stock solenoid setup which appears to be hooked up right, but I'm not sure how well this car is going to cooperate with a grainger valve (all I have).

I told him if it was my car I would ditch the header and put the stock manifold back on but I don't think he has it....sounds like he bought it this way from one of his friends so I can't really blame him for the hokey installation.

[dodgeshadowchik]

First and foremost, is he running the stock MAF and venting that BOV? If he is, tell him to recirculate that. If it is vented with the MAF in the stock location, than essientally this acts as a giant boost leak. (The computer metered the air, then all of a sudden its gone... )

You could hook up the grainer valve and take it out of the BCS if you want. However, if he doesn't have a boost gauge, this probably won't help anything. Worst case scenario is the car will hit fuel cut.

I would also ditch the header.. and yes fix that exhaust gap! Wouldn't be surprised if that is most of the problem. Oh yeah, a huge giant FMIC on a t-too-small is pretty useless.

FYI, here's an easy way to tell if it still is runnng the T25:


The popular 14b/16g swaps will have a j-pipe that is lacking on the t25 since the compressor housing has that nice little extension that goes to the factory SMIC.

16g: (14b will look similar)

[iTurbo]

Thanks! After looking at it again, it is in fact the TD05H. I assumed it was a T25 since it's a 2nd gen Eclipse. I attempted to tighten the exhaust manifold hardware since most all of them were loose, but it was a waste of time. The exhaust leak at the manifold/head flange is so bad you can feel it blast your fingers and carbon tracking all over the place, including the hood mat! Also one of the four bolts for the turbine/header was snapped as it had warped so much!

I'm going to call the kid back and tell him the best thing to do is get rid of that header and throw it in the garbage. This car needs a stock exhaust manifold, all new hardware and a new gasket plain and simple.

I looked into the BCS a little bit more, but the electrical connector is all jacked up with black tape and a bolt sticking in one of the vacuum lines coming out of it. Anybody got a pic or vacuum diagram of proper BCS hookup?

It does appear that the stock MAF is still there, but he has this crazy green foam HKS filter sticking on it. There is a large ~ 1.25" port in the compressor inlet rubber boot after the MAF with a big machined aluminum plug in it. Is that where the BOV is supposed to recirc?

[iTurbo]

BTW, anybody got a good used exhaust manifold for cheap? Looks pretty easy to replace so I may end up doing this for him for a small fee. Looks like I'll have to replace all the manifold hardware too. I don't know any good DSM places though....maybe RRE?

[dodgeshadowchik]

Yea, that is probably where it needs to be recirc-ed back. I attached a few pics for you. TD05H, he's probably got one of the 16gs on there.

RRE is a good place. I find that ExtremePSI is a great source for parts, as well. They are very fast, too.

www.extremepsi.com

If you go with the stock type manifold, try to locate an EVO3 manifold. They are less prone to cracking. The 2g DSM one tends to crack. The EVO3 ones could be found pretty cheap used, as well.

Tell him to check out www.dsmtuners.com, if he is not already on there and surf the classifieds. Also, if you are going to mess around with the boost off a grainger... ask him what he has done for fuel. Don't go over 15psi on that turbo if he's still running the stock injectors and pump. You are right, doing a manifold/turbo job on one of these is not that hard.

[dodgeshadowchik]

Idk what happened to the above post, but it changed the font and color... sorry if it's hard to read?

[iTurbo]

Excellent thank you! I can read it if I highlight the text with the mouse. Looks like I also need to find that little formed tube to recirculate the BOV as there is just a big aluminum plug in there right now with nothing on the BOV discharge.

[iTurbo]

OK right away I think I've found everything including OEM hardware, copper exhaust manifold gasket (Mr.Gasket), and the EVO3 exhaust manifold at ExtremePSI. Some of the items there is apparently a difference between a "6-bolt" and "7-bolt" motor. How do I know what this '96 model is?

[dodgeshadowchik]

Anytime!

Since this car is not stock, it could be either. Most people have this preconceived notion that all 7-bots will crankwalk, so they swap them to 6-bolts. When talking about stock cars, the 6-bolt was found in the 90-92.5 dsm. 92.5 and up were 7-bolts.

There's a few ways to differenate them. 6-bolt engines used a CAS sensor, which will look like a big round piece sticking off the intake cam on the passenger side of the engine. The 7-bolts used a different style cam sensor. However, it is possible to use the 6-bolt head on a 7-bolt block... The easiest way.. and for sure way to tell is to look at the crank pulley and count the bolts. There's not a lot of room, so you might have to take the wheel and splash shield off. 6-bolts will have 6, 7 will have 7. (This is where the name comes from. ) There's a difference in the oil pan, too, between the blocks. On the 7-bolt there's a flange that dips down right under the crank sprocket. On the 6-bolts it is straight.

Yeah, that's pretty normal for the newer kids to just vent that BOV for the "sound." Then they realize that the car doesn't run right anymore. But once they figure out how the MAF sensor works, they'll recirc it back. If he is bent on having one that vents off to atmosphere, tell him to look into moving the sensor so that its a "blow through" set up. I.E. the MAF is located in the UICP after the BOV.

[zshadow]

+1 to dodgeshadowchik and her great info!

if no reserc aka BOV w pipe into the intake then it needs reserc. Also check if the throttle body has 4 spots for vacuum lines or just three (4 spots = 1st gen 7 bolt, 3 spots = 2nd gen 6 bolt) that will also tell u what gen engine itll be.

if it sputters into boost also check his feed lines to the turbo, if they arent stock he might be drowning the turbo with oil. Those lines have to be the correct size for the amount of boost per application.

[slowneon]

Anytime!

Since this car is not stock, it could be either. Most people have this preconceived notion that all 7-bots will crankwalk, so they swap them to 6-bolts. When talking about stock cars, the 6-bolt was found in the 90-92.5 dsm. 92.5 and up were 7-bolts.

There's a few ways to differenate them. 6-bolt engines used a CAS sensor, which will look like a big round piece sticking off the intake cam on the passenger side of the engine. The 7-bolts used a different style cam sensor. However, it is possible to use the 6-bolt head on a 7-bolt block... The easiest way.. and for sure way to tell is to look at the crank pulley and count the bolts. There's not a lot of room, so you might have to take the wheel and splash shield off. 6-bolts will have 6, 7 will have 7. (This is where the name comes from. ) There's a difference in the oil pan, too, between the blocks. On the 7-bolt there's a flange that dips down right under the crank sprocket. On the 6-bolts it is straight.

Yeah, that's pretty normal for the newer kids to just vent that BOV for the "sound." Then they realize that the car doesn't run right anymore. But once they figure out how the MAF sensor works, they'll recirc it back. If he is bent on having one that vents off to atmosphere, tell him to look into moving the sensor so that its a "blow through" set up. I.E. the MAF is located in the UICP after the BOV.

6 and 7 bolts is in reference to how may bolts hold the flywheel on, not the front pulley. Also 97 and up switch cam sensors back to the sensor and the back of the head. Most likely it is a 7 bolt engine but these cars get hacked up by moron's all the time

[dodgeshadowchik]

Opps. sorry.. wrong side of the engine. I'm getting senile in this old age. LOL

[iTurbo]

Thanks again everyone. So far I'm looking at ordering this stuff from ExtremePSI:

OEM exhaust manifold stud/nut set
ARP 8740 chromoly turbo-to-manifold bolts/washers (cheaper than OEM)
OEM 4-ply exhaust manifold gasket
OEM dipstick tube (crazy rigged thing sticking out of it now)
ExtremePSI oil feed line kit (oil filter location)

On the exhaust manifold gasket, ExtremePSI offers three different ones: 2-ply OEM, 4-ply OEM, and the copper Mr.Gasket one. Which one should I get?

On the oil feed line kit, ExtremePSI has "head location" and "oil filter location" feed line kits. Right now it looks like the car has an OEM-looking hard line that appears to go down to the oil filter area. Don't know if it's stock or what. Am I OK buying the "oil filter location" turbo oil feed line kit?

Still looking for a dump tube that will work with the Greddy Type S BOV on there too. Anybody know where to get one? Or have a close-up picture of this area?

[dodgeshadowchik]

List looks good thus far!

Any of those gaskets will be ok. The OEM stuff tends to work just fine.

Stock 2g cars run the feed like from the filter housing, and from your description, it is still that way. You can choose to run the feed from either location, but I'd just leave it at the filter housing. It does provide a bit more oil pressure from there as opposed to the head.

Do you or can you get a picture of how he has his intercooler pipes set up? I've seen some people just use regular hose and some clamps to connect the BOV back into the intake. But if the BOV is sitting in a weird spot, it could kink the hose.

[dodgeshadowchik]

Oh, was digging through the bin with misc. DSM crap, and found the little hose that connects the BOV to the intake. However, It's an OE piece so depending on where his BOV is on the piping (and the size of the BOV's outlet), you may not be able to use it.

[slowneon]

Thanks again everyone. So far I'm looking at ordering this stuff from ExtremePSI:

OEM exhaust manifold stud/nut set
ARP 8740 chromoly turbo-to-manifold bolts/washers (cheaper than OEM)
OEM 4-ply exhaust manifold gasket
OEM dipstick tube (crazy rigged thing sticking out of it now)
ExtremePSI oil feed line kit (oil filter location)

On the exhaust manifold gasket, ExtremePSI offers three different ones: 2-ply OEM, 4-ply OEM, and the copper Mr.Gasket one. Which one should I get?

On the oil feed line kit, ExtremePSI has "head location" and "oil filter location" feed line kits. Right now it looks like the car has an OEM-looking hard line that appears to go down to the oil filter area. Don't know if it's stock or what. Am I OK buying the "oil filter location" turbo oil feed line kit?

Still looking for a dump tube that will work with the Greddy Type S BOV on there too. Anybody know where to get one? Or have a close-up picture of this area?

2 or 4 ply gasket would be fine. I had a copper one that didn't want to seal. You should consider the arp SS manifold to head studs just in case its got to come apart down the road. Oil feed comes from the oil filter housing stock. I have been told that there is not enough oil flow thought the head on a 2g, to hook the turbo oil feed line. I don't really believe them but I always use the filter housing

[dodgeshadowchik]

+1

Forgot about those $86 bolts. But worth it. LOL.. yeah, it's pretty much a good idea to not believe what most "dsmers" say.

[iTurbo]

Yeah if it were my car I probably would get the nice stainless ARP hardware. I know the TIII motors came with SS studs stock and they have always looked great when I remove them despite them being 20+ years old.

I think I will just get the 4-ply exhaust manifold gasket though. I was a little apprehensive about getting the copper Mr.Gasket one just because I'm one of those "stock is trick" people I suppose. I decided to get the 4-ply hoping that it will seal a little better as the eBay header on the car now has been leaking for a while so hopefully it hasn't damaged the flange on the head.

I'm about to tear into the car now....I finally have a night off from Dominos and I'm going to be taking pics before I even start and all along the way. I will take a pic of the Greddy BOV setup as well....maybe DSC can tell if the OEM BOV hose will work with it or not. I did find a good webpage on how to properly recirc the BOV and eliminate the BOV 'dump' tube inside the air intake hose so that should make the computer happy again. I have a feeling most of the problem is related to the major exhaust leaks though, so I'm going to fix that up first.

This car is pretty cool....if I wasn't so overloaded with old turbo Mopars I might get one myself!

[dodgeshadowchik]

Good luck! Would love to see pics of the car.

They are addictive... so be careful.

[iTurbo]

OK, just got done working on the car. In less than two hours I had the intake, radiator fans, turbocharger, and header removed from the car. Here are some pics of it and my progress so far.

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Unfortunately I found even more stuff wrong with the car. Big surprise right?! I thought it was leaking oil, but upon further inspection it appears that most of the leakage is due to a coolant leak probably coming from the big aluminum water pipe that runs parallel to the block. Looks like a leaking O-ring where it meets the water pump just behind the P/S pump. Is this easy to fix? It doesn't look that hard to remove the big pipe but I haven't tried yet.

Second problem I found is that after removing the turbocharger, the turbine housing has a really big crack extending into the wastegate passage. One of the threaded holes for attaching it to the manifold was also stripped. The turbo seems OK other than that.... probably functional but possibly reducing response. I'm pretty sure it is a stock turbocharger as the compressor wheel is really small even compared to a Chryco TII unit.

Third problem is that several of the exhaust manifold stud holes have been helicoiled, but the ends of them were not cut off flush with the head and they are actually protruding out of the flange! This header didn't stand a chance in hell of sealing. I had to pry the 2-ply exhaust manifold gasket off the head and studs because of all the RTV that was used. I'm hoping that lots of cleanup with Brakleen and a razor blade will take care of most of it. I will have to use the Dremel with a cutoff wheel to cut the helicoils down flush with the flange, install another helicoil in one of the holes because it stripped, and then install all new studs/gasket/stock manifold.

Fourth problem (least of worries) was a major boost leak in the intercooler piping just below the BOV. That was probably the biggest reason for not making any boost at all.

Fifth problem is the timing belt seems really loose. Replacing the T-belt does not look like any fun at all!

So I'm going to talk to the kid and see what he wants to do about it....even after removing all this stuff I have to say it is pretty easy to work on *so far*.