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Thread: Hot Rod Drag Week?

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  1. #1

    Hot Rod Drag Week?

    This may be a crazy idea, but I was thinking about entering the Hot Rod Drag Week in the daily driver category. For those that don't know the event is 5 different tracks, 1000 miles drive in 5 days and the car must do it all without a support vehicle!

    2011 Hot Rod Drag Week Rules and Link to Registration - Hot Rod Magazine

    How crazy of an idea is this?

    Anybody interested in riding shotgun? If something goes wrong, I might need a spare set of hands for wrenching or trouble shooting... Likely my normally-aspirated 3L V6 '87 Shadow which doesn't have AC right now so it could be a warm ride.

    Ed Kelly - Kelly-Mulhern Performance

  2. #2
    turbo addict
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    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    If I was not a stay at home Dad I'd be in that with the Matchbox.
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]47 Time NHRA/IHRA drag race champ-----84 Plymouth Horizon/1 of 84 HO equipped from the factory/1910 lbs, 2.5 with carb, nearly 315,000 miles-----04 SRT4/S2 with S3 turbo/12.17 @ 119/DOTs/93 Octane/SOLD-----2003 PT Cruiser GT, won a True Street class at the 2017 National Muscle Car Association World Street Finals-----2010 Toyota Prius/my delivery truck, 77.9 mpg best and NOT A PLUG IN, nearly 230,000 miles and way over 5600 miles per month! [/COLOR][/SIZE]

  3. #3
    turbo addict
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    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    I AM GAME for riding along

    i will so take work off and come down to IL ( i think thats where your at)


    lemmi check those dates

    ---------- Post added at 10:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 PM ----------

    yep i can deff get those days off

  4. #4
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    promise to take pictures Ed.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  5. #5

    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    For some reason I was expecting a chorus of people say not to do it...

    It looks like I have a potential co-pilot for the event.

    I started looking through last years results. There is a decided lack of FWD cars (I counted two and I would guess that those were somebodies plan B). I also noted that with the car reasonably stands (probably low 14, but I think there is potential to get into high-13's) it would be just outside the 32 car shootout at the end... It would seem to fall into a gap between the 12 second cars and the 14 second cars.

    Right now I am wondering what changes I should make to the car.

    body: '87 Shadow
    engine: 6g72 3L V6 (from my '91 Voyager) ~240K on bottom end.
    mods:
    Stage 2 ported heads w/3.3L springs, LS1 locks and retainers.
    Ported intake runners.
    custom dual plenums w/dual 58mm TBs
    Mega-Squirt 2
    Mild regrind cam
    3" exhaust

    The engine has been run to 7200 RPM and makes power to ~6600 RPM.


    mods already in the works:
    Half-header to replace front exhaust manifold and crossover. (1.25" primaries)
    Dyno time to fine tune in the MS.

    Mods under consideration:
    a more aggressively reground cam (which one? how much duration? how much lift? welded lobes to change lobe separation angle? etc...)
    solid lifters?? Not sure if there are gains in this or not.
    larger throttle bodies (dual 70mm?)
    adjustable cam sprockets?
    Remove (for the competition) the rear seat.
    Full header?


    Any opinions?

    Ed Kelly

    ---------- Post added at 01:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    promise to take pictures Ed.
    Reading through the rules, picture taking is mandatory. Really it is. You have to take pictures of you at the various check points. Beyond that, I would be taking some additional pictures too...

  6. #6
    turbo addict
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    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    well if you need me im ready and willing to go the whole 1000 miles.

    i think if you can and have the time a full header would only help and if you really have no budget then the dual 70s and bigger cam are a no brainer. i guess you could go bigger on the throttle bodys but like you said, the gas gets touchy.

  7. #7
    turbo addict
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    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    hit it with a 100 shot!!!!!!!!

  8. #8
    turbo addict Pat's Avatar
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    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    You should go...I've been thinking about this for years and am hoping to make '12. I'm committed to going to the Grassroots Challenge this year in Florida, so no more racing trip time for this year. But next year, I think I'm in. I have the car and I have the engine. Just need to put them together and get some miles on it.

    Good luck!

  9. #9
    turbo addict
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    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    I also started a thread about this. I am going with my GLH.

  10. #10
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    I would try some weight loss if you can wing it (I have a feeling you won't want to do the big stuff). Dual 70's or bigger.

    Solid lifters will lose power on the same cam thanks to the lower ratio. The advantage to the solids is for an extreme cam and the fact that you can get away with removing lots from the base circle.

    Ed, I would go really big on the cam. Even with stock heads a big cam really works well in the upper rpms. Mopar 3.0 ran a bone stock head with his custom intake and said he had great power up there.
    I would guess your cam is milder then the Crower RPW stage 2 clone.

    And I wonder how maximized your timing map is from what Sundance 6g72 has said. I would ramp that timing up progressively at 5500 6000 6500 and 7000 unless you feel you have a perfect tune. So you don't worry so much about hurting the motor, my first turbo setup I accidentally ran 24 degrees of base timing (so about 50 degrees total advance at WOT and high rpms) and even on 5 pounds of boost and 92 octane it was fine because it was crazy rich. At 10psi it went boom with all that timing and the fact that it leaned out to 12 and 13 to one.
    You are NOT going to hurt it if you even get to high 40's in timing up top if you are running premium. HP should be low enough that you can recognize knock with some microphone setups and tone it down.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  11. #11

    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    Quote Originally Posted by bakes View Post
    hit it with a 100 shot!!!!!!!!
    I toyed with nitrous, but for the moment I want to keep it definitively normally-aspirated.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sundance 6g72 View Post
    well if you need me im ready and willing to go the whole 1000 miles.
    Well, including the drive out and back it is more like 2000 miles...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    I would try some weight loss if you can wing it (I have a feeling you won't want to do the big stuff).
    I intend to keep the car fairly stock for the moment, I won't be doing a whole lot of weight loss...

    Dual 70's or bigger.
    Yeah, trying to figure out which ones.

    Solid lifters will lose power on the same cam thanks to the lower ratio. The advantage to the solids is for an extreme cam and the fact that you can get away with removing lots from the base circle.

    Ed, I would go really big on the cam. Even with stock heads a big cam really works well in the upper rpms. Mopar 3.0 ran a bone stock head with his custom intake and said he had great power up there.
    I would guess your cam is milder then the Crower RPW stage 2 clone.
    Yeah, it is fairly mild. Are you thinking E-27829? or F-5365? On the solid or hydraulic lifters?


    And I wonder how maximized your timing map is from what Sundance 6g72 has said. I would ramp that timing up progressively at 5500 6000 6500 and 7000 unless you feel you have a perfect tune. So you don't worry so much about hurting the motor, my first turbo setup I accidentally ran 24 degrees of base timing (so about 50 degrees total advance at WOT and high rpms) and even on 5 pounds of boost and 92 octane it was fine because it was crazy rich. At 10psi it went boom with all that timing and the fact that it leaned out to 12 and 13 to one.
    You are NOT going to hurt it if you even get to high 40's in timing up top if you are running premium. HP should be low enough that you can recognize knock with some microphone setups and tone it down.
    Right now I have been running 87 octane. The spark map is probably not maximized, but I was planning on doing that during some dyno time...

  12. #12
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    If you run a mild regrind, don't use the solids. You have to make up huge amounts of lift and duration if you go solid. As long as your lifters are able to take up the base circle change, stay hydraulic.
    I found out that the ratio difference was making my 278's behave like a 302 cam, and the 216@.050" behave like 230 (which is a huge difference). Also changes lift a lot. I don't think you can run the solids with a stock base circle anyways.

    I dont' know the difference between those cams but i would try something bigger then mild crower. Whatever one Reaper's car had, go more extreme. Maybe try the extreme one and then when you have more time get a custom profile that you like better. Seems like the lead times can be rough. I still trust my cam guy and I didn't wait long. He took away the separation difference but dropped my base circle too much in the process to use hydraulics. We never knew about all these intricacies back in the day but now we do
    Solid lifters will allow you to remove enough base circle to make our cams "normal."

    Maybe try Kreel's cam! i think a good supercharged cam should be decent n/a. They don't worry about overlap like turbo guys do.

    I think that differences in the overlap are a bigger deal when turbo then n/a btw.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  13. #13
    turbo addict
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    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    ED, i am ready for anything man. just lemmi know the exact dates so i can get work off.

  14. #14
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    I just remembered you can't use Kreel's cams unless you have solids and even then it depends on how much clearance you can take up with the adjusters.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  15. #15

    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    From memory the specs of the current cam are 194 duration@0.050 .394" valve lift. I am not planning on running solid lifters on the current cam. If I did it would be on a more aggressive cam...

  16. #16
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    I just remembered you can't use Kreel's cams unless you have solids and even then it depends on how much clearance you can take up with the adjusters.
    Yep, solids are a necessity with my cams. Depending on my final lift #'s Ed's current spring/valve/retainer setup still might not work.

    Quote Originally Posted by c2xejk View Post
    From memory the specs of the current cam are 194 duration@0.050 .394" valve lift. I am not planning on running solid lifters on the current cam. If I did it would be on a more aggressive cam...
    Go with an aggressive cam and the solids Once (if) Crower ever gets my cams back out to me in the near future I'll run it N/A first just to get a feel for how "aggressive" my cam is. I told them many, many times what I was looking for so I'm hoping they get it right. You might not be able to use the same regrind...but at least the numbers will give you *some* idea on what could work.

  17. #17
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    Quote Originally Posted by c2xejk View Post
    From memory the specs of the current cam are 194 duration@0.050 .394" valve lift. I am not planning on running solid lifters on the current cam. If I did it would be on a more aggressive cam...
    I believe the mild crower regrind is still a lot more aggressive then that. I thought it was 210 @ .050" with the same lift as your cam. I can't promise that since I don't run one of those cams. I will go with my guy again when I get the next one made.

    If you don't like them I am sure you can resell it easily on 3si.org because I have well promoted that product there.
    The thing that is weird about that cam is that they want you to run the cam advanced 4 degrees (106) but that should just mean that at 110 the cam will bias the higher end more then it was meant to.
    I don't think cam gears are a good deal at all. I only got them because of my rev limiter issue vs cam profile and can't really say it helped me do anything but kill top end. If you ever figure out a solution for them that is lighter and less expensive then what I have then it might be worth a look.
    Last edited by Ondonti; 07-19-2011 at 02:59 AM.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  18. #18
    turbo addict
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    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    I wish I could go; went to SDAC instead. There are a handfull of people going from the Lincoln/Omaha Area this year since it start out so close to home.

  19. #19
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    I would do it for sure, sounds like a total blast,

    I would tune it to run 87, keep the costs down.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
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    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  20. #20

    Re: Hot Rod Drag Week?

    My tentative plan of attack for more hp is: bigger TBs, bigger cam, header to replace the front manifold...

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