Building an a604 to handle 1000hp? How to protect the input shaft.

[Ondonti]

This is not a 3 speed thread.

Racer Steve has done a lot of things to help everything else in the trans...
The real thing that scares me about the a604 is that it has the same input shaft size as the a413. a413's seem to snap shafts on a low 10 second car that weighs only 2000 pounds. They just swap in a billet 904 shaft and ignore the problem.

The a604 has no such luxury.

Does the a413 shaft only break on launch or what?
I was thinking that a tight converter plus launch control and launch boost control would soften the hit. I have seen Evo's come out of the hole VERY soft and still run 9 flat or faster. Those are typically manual trans launches where they are trying to save parts.

How large is our input shaft compared to the DSM's
btw interesting link.
http://www.importperformancetrans.co...sion-4221.html



BTW for building a 41te, it could be done by the guy who has all the craziest 3.0 6g72 builds. I never knew his 3.0 powered drag car was a Stratus.
http://www.stratusphere.net/forums/i...dpost&p=467386
Never seen pictures before if his last setup. He had other setups but I think this was the last one before his funding was pulled for this project.
http://www.3si.org/forum/f11/picture...system-288116/
He also mentions sohc in page 5 when he actually replies.

Weird coincidence that the guy with the craziest 3.0 build ever also builds 41te's? lol!

[Ondonti]

http://www.stratusphere.net/forums/i...rans-problems/
That claims a 700ft/lb capable trans. not sure on the weight of the car. If a pt is 3150 pounds no driver then I would think that a 2400 pound car with driver could get more torque through that trans.

Interesting hit on Gary's site.

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/friends_anthony_b.html

Now we know why he built 12 valve 3.0's and got the mitsubishi bug. I would bet his only interest in the 3000gt guys was that he tried to make more power and dropped the 12v heads in his proRWD car!


Then him calling out Darrel for stealing/copying his transmission upgrades and selling them.
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.ph...7286&start=160

[Ondonti]

And the general movement to build them sorta died the last few years. SebringLX seems to have had some failures with a built transmission without crazy power and thats scary to me.
BTW, I spent too much time talking to Vigo and too much time not driving a fun car, and too much time finding ways to have fun driving an auto trans Taurus.

[RoadWarrior222]

I'd imagine just launching it from idle instead of holding it near TC stall would help things.

Also there's heat treatment options for input shafts.

So is there a proven "I don't wanna go crazy but I might want it to hold up to 400HP and I just wanna drive the hell out of it" set of upgrades that aren't too time or special tool consuming?

---------- Post added at 10:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 AM ----------

(Oh and any 44RE components that can be stole? Or is that based off something different?)

[Ondonti]

Racer steve put 600 through a junkyard trans with the $750 controller. I don't think the input shaft if a big deal. I don't know why a413 shafts snap like twigs and 41te doe snot. I was reading that huge 41te thread on neons.org but it turned into an UNA runs things on megasquirt thread. I really don't care about him putting 100hp through a trans that can do that as is.

[turbovanman²]

Not sure, maybe the metalurgy is better on the 604? I have one here, I'll compare to my 413 stuff.

And the general movement to build them sorta died the last few years. SebringLX seems to have had some failures with a built transmission without crazy power and thats scary to me.
BTW, I spent too much time talking to Vigo and too much time not driving a fun car, and too much time finding ways to have fun driving an auto trans Taurus.

I believe his issues were mostly builder error and the fact he has paddle shift so he can't stop it from shifting into 4th, which is a HUGE no no at WOT with boost.

I will be building one for Shayne for his boost 3.0L, so we'll see if I can make it live.

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.ph...7286&start=160

LOL, I made it into one post by Speedy, when I broke my trans in 2,

[Ondonti]

Of course the real reason for an a604 is my 10 bolt rear end which the a413/a670 can't deal with
I don't feel comfortable enough with the 4 speed but I am constantly tempted.

[shayne]

well with forged pistons on order from cali a hx35 and full ss turbo manifolds and crossover being jigged this week, mildly ported heads and fully ported intake, and with my a604 in simons shop, we will soon (month or two)find out what kind of abuse and power an a604 with whatever upgrades i can dig up can handle. i talked to an ase mechanic through email and he had some pretty sound tips for me, (using 1/3 clutches and steels in the 2/4 drum, bit of a mix and match. raise line pressure slightly, speed up the accumulators with larger holes in the spacer plate etc.)

[bakes]

Shayne if you and simon need help i can give it i used to build these all day long in the early days I still have all my tech books.

[turbovanman²]

If your around, I would like to borrow your tech books, I might go buy one anyhow, they are cheap.

[shayne]

any help would be greatly appreciated bakes, if anyone else has some tips and tricks to add it couldnt hurt this thread i dont think.

[glhs0426]

The only thing that concerns me about a 41TE build with power in front of it is the stock electronics. The programming "slides" the trans into every gear. Using the controller and mods Racer Steve used should make this trans very capable.

The input shaft of a 41TE might have the same splines as a 31TH, but it is much better. Again, Racer Steve mentioned something about it in the thread over on the Neon site.

[Reaper1]

Please remember that A604's have been built since 1998 to hold 400hp in a heavy Daytona. There's no doubt in my mind they can handle it. As has always been discussed, it's the stock electronics that hold it back.

[RoadWarrior222]

On the one hand one might consider it relatively simple to prototype a controller that slams everything in instead of modulates it softly, but on the other, some of it's survivability might come from not doing that.

[Ondonti]

I vote Chris gifts me a transmission that he never plans on using!

[Reaper1]

Also, AJ has been around since before these forums existed, when they were still mailing lists! LOL He was the TIII guru before Jackson. I think I even met him a few times at Carlisle.

All that doesn't really contribute much here, besides giving AJ more credit (and he deserves it!).

---------- Post added at 10:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------

On the one hand one might consider it relatively simple to prototype a controller that slams everything in instead of modulates it softly, but on the other, some of it's survivability might come from not doing that.

That was actually tried with simple switches to activate the solenoids. It works, but is harsh. Longevity was never tested.

I vote Chris gifts me a transmission that he never plans on using!

HA! I do plan on using it...I just have to get a job that pays $$$$$$ so I can move ahead with my life and therefor my projects!

[Force Fed Mopar]

HA! I do plan on using it...I just have to get a job that pays $$$$$$ so I can move ahead with my life and therefor my projects!

So you do still have the V6 car then?

[turbovanman²]

On the one hand one might consider it relatively simple to prototype a controller that slams everything in instead of modulates it softly, but on the other, some of it's survivability might come from not doing that.

Did you read? There are a few controllers out there.

[Vigo]

Ahhh, 604 love.

This would be old news to Brent but i think it will work with some effort at controlling the torque on launches. The strength of 1-3 gears is not in question, hasnt been for years, and the 4th gear is a known no-no to put power through, but you dont need it and it's easy to avoid doing it.

It's sort of sad that there is still so little documented knowledge of putting power through a 604 when it's been being done sporadically for so many years. I mean, how long after the 1997 Prowler came out was it before someone put 400+hp through a 604 (~606)? Probably about an hour, but where is the info? Almost none of it has been documented worth a crap. They've been putting this basic trans design in ~4k lb vans, ram trucks, and wranglers for many years now, with people overusing and abusing them, but the info is like needles in a haystack. There's never been a way or a place for all the 604-design trans knowledge to come together in one place.

The only thing keeping the 604 out of mainstream racing is the price of controllers and paying SOMEONE ELSE to do your trans rebuilds. The key there, is do the damn rebuild yourself. The controller price thing is an issue but i do hold hope that the OEM controller will be figured out eventually.

[Ondonti]

teach us O' Adam thy rebuild ways in full color format or stfu