523/568 Vs 523

[10G OMNI]

Everytime i write up some thing and submit it,it ask me to login again,so illl keep it short.
My 568/523 3:50 was slower than my 523 3:50 period in no way is it faster.
My mph was down 5-6 as i usally trap at 110-112.
Wast of time and money
Still because this is the third time typing this story,this is the short version.
Peter(OSDAC)

[Mario]

What car is this in and what kind of power are you putting down. Also, you didn't change your tires or wheels did you?

[Frank]

1. Click the check mark near the login name to keep you logged in.

2. Changing the gearing like you did doesnt mean you will go faster at all... it is all depended on your turbo and engine setup. Honestly it is the last modification you make when going with huge power. There has been alot of hybrid trannies made and very few have been needed. They hybrid would be great for road racing typically because it helps you keep traction.. whne you keep traction, that means less understeer.


Frank

[cordes]

+1 for what kind of car/power.

A hybrid trans takes a lot of gear out of the equation.

[91DSX]

Hmm, I actually have Peter's old A-523 which is being used to convert my A-568 into a hybrid, actually as we speak its on Dave Rose's bench. . .very interesting that he lost MPH, his car is making very good power:
1.813-----60ft
5.288-----330ft
8.106-----1/8
87.15-----1/8 MPH
12.565----1/4
110.88----1/4 MPH

[Frank]

How about times? Did they say relatively the same?

[inmyshadow]

I always wondered how a turbododge would be like with 3.77 gearing from an A543.

I know for sure, 3.50 gear sucks for autocross. Even going low profile tires didn't help. So I used a A568.

I never really gave it a thought at the time to use internals of the A543 in an A523 case. Of course the main reason going A568 was because it was the only tranny at the time with a quaife.

I think the 3.77 could be a very good gearing for our cars for general purpose dragracing/autocrossing. With the A568, i'm really close to redline in 4th gear by the end of the 1/4mile. But for daily driving and my car being a convertible, it really helps me out down low.

More to ponder.

[Frank]

Acutally I thought much about this. I think the 3.50 568 hybrid would be great on autocross with lots of power... more then what most people would plan anyway.

Now for stock or v6 cars on autocross, I think the best would be the 3.85 523 reverse hybrid of the 568. Lots of short gears.


Frank

[inmyshadow]

Define "lots of power" for autocross. Last shadow was making 200whp and 280Ft lbs of torque.

I hated my shadow whenever a 180 degree turnaround was coming. I always had to downshift to 1st so I could exit the corner with any power.

Swapped to A568 and the car exploded out of the turns. I never ran out of gearing with my shadow.

On the other hand, I ran out of gear all the time with my 3.0 92 Daytona IROC. People thought I was crazy bouncing off the rev limiter on the longer courses. My 3.0 only made 160whp and 180ft lbs of torque.

Acutally I thought much about this. I think the 3.50 568 hybrid would be great on autocross with lots of power... more then what most people would plan anyway.

Now for stock or v6 cars on autocross, I think the best would be the 3.85 523 reverse hybrid of the 568. Lots of short gears.


Frank

[Frank]

Define "lots of power" for autocross. Last shadow was making 200whp and 280Ft lbs of torque.

I hated my shadow whenever a 180 degree turnaround was coming. I always had to downshift to 1st so I could exit the corner with any power.

Swapped to A568 and the car exploded out of the turns. I never ran out of gearing with my shadow.

On the other hand, I ran out of gear all the time with my 3.0 92 Daytona IROC. People thought I was crazy bouncing off the rev limiter on the longer courses. My 3.0 only made 160whp and 180ft lbs of torque.

Well lots of power would be a well designed 2.4L shadow that I am putting together, HOWEVER its mainly meant for open class stuff like NASA road race.... just plain fun, never win stuff. So I guess lots of power is up in the air about effectiveness, etc.


Anyway, I hear ya on the 3.0L... it was awesome... rev limiter all the time... heck, I even made into 3rd gear one time. I managed to pull off a 2002 DSP 3rd place for the season... the last race weekend I was at that year was less the .5 seconds between Turbododgepirate in his Neon R/T and myself with a nice Honda in between us.


Frank

[tryingbe]

Sell me the cheap hybrid.

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/trans/trans_10.jpg

Tall gears means you can go higher speed, but you'll give up some acceleration.
Short gears means you have more acceleartion, but you'll give up higher speed.

[10G OMNI]

No tire changes,i run slicks.my times where close to what i would usally run,but not faster.I only got 3 runs in and 2 time tickets.
I did add a OBX to the tranny and konis which should of helped out a little in the time department.
Was a hot humid day hottest so far but ive still traped at 110 on days like that.
Roger posted my time from last year so it makes around 300whp or so in my GLH,its a street car not a drag car,i drive it there and back.
I just wanted to give those wanting to build a hybrid a head up,it cost lots of money for not much improvement,just use a 523 3:50 and a obx.
You might see better results going from a 555 to a hybrid in a light car tho.
Next in line for testing is the S-2 which iam ordering a g-tech to make sure i get the numbers right for us.
I got some pics of the GLH if someone wanted to host/put them up.

Peter(OSDAC)

[Frank]

We see you.

[iTurbo]

Interesting thread as I have my A568/A523 w/3.50 and OBX on the way for my '91 Spirit R/T.

The R/T doesn't have a whole lot of mods yet...ported exhaust manifold, 3" exhaust, stage I cams, +20s + AFPR, and a few other little things. I wonder if the lower final drive is actually going to slow it down with this degree of mods?

At any rate, it's not really a big deal. If I really don't like it, I'll put the hybrid trans in my GLH. Right now my GLH has a 3.05:1 A525 and I really like it.

[Skibbe]

I've got an A523 with the 3.77 gears in one of my Chargers. I think post-'92 came with that ratio, mines out of a '94. I'm running a 2.5L with an aluminum flywheel too though.

[Aries_Turbo]

the tall box really helps out a light, torquey car like a GLH..... I wouldnt put it in a heavy beast like an R/T unless I was making tons of power, nor would I put it in a daytona. too heavy.

Brian

[rbryant]

Tires have a huge effect on this. If you think about an lbody running 205/50/15 tires vs a bigger car with say 225/50/16 tires.

I did a bunch of analysis on this.

Reasonable Combos:

90 568 w/ 225/50/16 @6k RPM:

37
59
87
119
157

90 568 w/ 205/50/15 @6k RPM:

36
57
84
115
152

225/50/16 W/ 568 gears and 3.50 FD

41
65
96
131
173

205/50/15 W/ 568 gears and 3.50 FD

40
63
93
126
167

225/50/16 W/ 568 gears and 3.77 FD

38
60
89
121
161


205/50/15 W/ 568 gears and 3.77 FD

37
58
86
117
155


For my lbody I am about to install an OBX in a 568 w/ a 3.77 FD. I doubt it will make much difference from the 3.85 but it won't be as drastic as the 3.50FD and I think 3.85 gives some pretty low gearing on an lbody.

92 523 Gears with a 3.50 FD is interesting:

225/50/16:

37
60
90
127
171

205/50/15:

36
58
87
122
165


I also considered changing out the #4 gear on a 90 523 from .94 to .97 to even things out a bit but then again who really cares.


-Rich

[iTurbo]

I think I'm in for a surprise when I drive my R/T again with the hybrid. Wow. I think I'll like it though, especially having a usable first gear for once.

[MiniMopar]

The 3.50:1 is great for a street car. Lots of gear there. I'd have to agree about the track though. I had a tougher time with the A520 in my CSX at the driving school at SDAC15 than I did at SDAC10. I had a stock A568 at the time. 1st gear is pretty useless and 5th was mandatory on the straight, but only having to deal with 2-3-4 on the curves was helpful.

99.9% of my driving is on the street for both of my cars, so I stick with the taller gears.

[iTurbo]

I use my whole fleet of TDs for pizza delivery over the years and I too prefer taller gears. These TDs make enough low end torque when properly modded that gear multiplication doesn't seem all that necessary and the taller gear really helps the car stretch it's legs and get a lot more MPH out of the relatively narrow and peaky torque curve.

My 3:50:1 FD A568 w/OBX arrived today and I will be installing it over the weekend in my Spirit R/T. I went with the 3.50 FD because I wanted a usable 1st gear and I think the car will 'grow' into the taller gear as I continue to mod it. Just hoping for 2.0 60fts on street tires (new 225/50/16 Kumho 711s).