I ran the crap out of my stock 86 2.2. 24psi on a stock Garret. Moved pretty good. Hell it still ran when I pulled it.
I ran the crap out of my stock 86 2.2. 24psi on a stock Garret. Moved pretty good. Hell it still ran when I pulled it.
from reading all the posts it is clear a lot of L-bodies have made it into the 12's with just a few mods but i did not see a write up of one that fits the "stock turbo, injectors, and intercooler" requirement.
i never ran my 86S with the stock injectors either, but i made a lot of passes w/ the original turbo and the original intercooler. best pass was a 12.92. i bet you could get a 86S into the 12's by just installing a MBC, a good calibration, and a 3" exhaust, and retain the stock turbo, injectors, and intercooler. but, has anyone done that yet?[COLOR="Silver"]
Injectors dont make power, they just support it, so injector size is a fairly useless thing to know. It is either POSSIBLE or IMPOSSIBLE to take X weight to X speed in X distance with given injectors, so you pretty much know what injectors can do without anyone telling you what they ran. The only thing it proves if someone tells you is that math..STILL WORKS.
The lowest MPH ive seen high 12s at was ~98mph. To accelerate a 2700lb (race weight) vehicle to 98mph in 1/4 mile takes ~200chp. 4 33lb/hr injectors at 80% duty cycle and 55psi pressure differential can flow that much. So it is technically possible, barely, to run 12s in a full weight S-car on stock injectors (and stock pressure). Lessen the weight or up the pressure differential or the duty cycle and it gets a little easier. Most people would rather just run bigger injectors than start taking apart their car or rescaling their cal for stock injectors @ higher pressure when they can just rescale for BIGGER injectors and not have to change injectors ANYWAY if they make 12 more hp...
I cant imagine most people doing run after run after run to eek out that last tenth of ET to run 12.9 on a full weight, barely modded, 200hp car when just making 230 or 240hp (with bigger injectors) is SO much easier.
Dont push the red button.You hear me?
considering that the 86S has been restored, poly bushings, new koni's and the right alignment they will run 12s on the stock parts if driven right. Straight through muffler, mandrel bent 2.5" exhaust without a cat. Then +20 or FFV injectors, 3 br map and FWDperformance stage 5 with or without a MBC will run 12s no problem. This combo with a 87 CSX and slicks will run 12s..... Keep also in mind the 525's life span can be clocked with an egg timer with a stage 5.Originally Posted by Marcus86GLHS
At this point, stock injectors are 20 years old. They should be the first thing that get replaced anyway! Even so, I've never been comforable pushing more than 14 psi or so (200ish hp) with the stock injectors. Wasn't worth the rist to me to push it without adding fuel in a reliable way.
That being said, I've never run one of these cars too hard with stock injectors. I ran my '87 GLHS in the 14.5's (maybe 14.4) @ about 97-98 mph on street tires bone stock (including exhaust) with nothing but a K&N filter and an MP stage II computer (computer controlled 14 psi). I am sure that with slicks, that car would have run mid to high 13's in that set up.
The next step for the car at that point was +20's, an exhaust, more boost and slicks and got it down to 12.8 @ 106. Then it got a big intercooler and went 12.5 @ 110.
From all of the posts, it looks like I may need some slightly larger injectors for reliable 12's. This isn't too much of a problem, and I should be able to convert the car to use my 87 CSX computer so I can create a custom cal. I appreciate all of the feedback!
What did you end up doing jckrieger?
I'm in a similar boat. Not working with a big budget so it would be nice to keep the stock Garrett and see what she can do in the Omni.
I'm thinking about running the stock Garrett with +20's, large FMIC, AFPR, full 3" exhaust, a 3-bar MAP, and a FWDP Stage 5 cal @ 18 psi (87 electronics).
What are some ball park power/tq numbers one could expect on this setup? It sounds like high 12's are possible on this setup.
I'm not sure how I missed this post! I am just now getting the car back together, so I don't have any performance numbers. The car now has an a520 with an OBX diff, a 2.5" swingvalve with a large can wastegate, and 2.5" mandrel exhaust. Once I get a few miles on the car I'll be installing a set of +20's or +40's and will be cranking the boost up to around 16psi.
A lot of LW connecting rods have been thrown, so I'm probably never going to go much beyond that power level. If the engine comes apart, then it will be getting a full build when it goes back together. For some reason my daily driver R/T is getting all of the go-fast parts and the GLHS is keeping mostly stock parts. I'm not sure how I ended up with that logic.
Just wanted to say, no.
^260 WTRQ on a 2.2L, 230 WHP. ~2000 miles. Never slipped, just one day on the highway WOT in 5th gear all the sudden it was like I was in neutral. Took me awhile to figure out what the hell happened because I sure wasn't expecting that.
A t2/t3 clutch can handle a decently modded 2.2 unless it just breaks into pieces randomly. But on a 2.5 youll be pushing through it even with less WHP than a 2.2 setup that doesnt.
Dont push the red button.You hear me?
When it comes to clutch, peak torque matters, not peak hp.
Exactly! The T3 clutch holds fine in my Spirit at about 250 whp, but that same clutch wouldn't last 10,000 miles on a 2.5L running a stock turbo at 25psi... at about the same peak power.
I should have the GLHS at SDAC this year, so we'll see what can be done with the stock turbo and intercooler. There's a good chance that this car will get my set of +40's and a 3 bar map before the event as well. If there's a good occasion, I'll make a trip to the 1/4 before swapping the injectors for a baseline. The car is finally "done" except for some cosmetics, so there should be many good times to be had this year.
It wouldnt last one second. A 2.5 @25 psi should be making like ~440 tq. I made 320wtq @16 psi...but that same clutch wouldn't last 10,000 miles on a 2.5L running a stock turbo at 25psi.
Dont push the red button.You hear me?
Not with a stock T2 turbo. Probably more in the 350 wtrq range, but of course that would still rip a T2/T3 clutch to shreds.
Im pretty sure people have dyno'd 400wtq on a stock garrett. I dont think it makes sense that you would only gain 30wtq from adding almost 10 psi vs the dyno run i mentioned.
Turbos are more hp-limited than torque limited. It takes less airflow to make a huge torque number at a low rpm (my peak torque rpm was in the 3000s) than to make a smaller hp number at higher rpm. As long as the turbo can create the pressure, the peak torque will keep going up until something gives in the motor long before it tapers off to no gain purely from heat increase. Granted, you CAN build a setup that will survive running the turbo to the point that the charge is so hot that adding boost doesnt increase power, but most people with a stockish motor and a stock garrett will break pistons from detonation before they go that far into diminishing returns that they get 0 torque gain from adding boost. just my .02
Dont push the red button.You hear me?
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