Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

[Reaper1]

If you get something like an M90 that's been ported and drive it faster and an intercooler, couple it with a nice build and a good tune...I bet you could crack 400hp. With one of the new 4-lobe blowers, I don't think that would be an issue at all. If you could spin it, getting a M110 would be insane! I think that was actually done a long time ago on that swapped Neon that had the ridiculous cowled hood. There was no solid numbers on that and it was truly thrown together.

[Force Fed Mopar]

That Harvii guy had an M90 on his Lebaron a long time, and may still have. Never heard any power numbers from it though.

http://harvii.tripod.com/

[Reaper1]

Yeah, I remember that. (looking at the page now...many memories...aww yeah, scanned disposable camera pictures FTW! LOL ) I thought he took it apart a long time ago. I don't think anybody besides Brent, Mulhern, and "Lucy"(can't remember the person's name right now ) have actually been on a dyno that had any significant mods. I may be way off base there, though, but that's all I can remember. I know there were a few others that tried things like the larger throttle bodies and such, but not many FI or sprayed cars.

[Ondonti]

OP Joe sure dyno'd. Before and after Would have been awesome to see a dyno after cams with some fuel on the same boost as he ran on stock cams.

After getting a PM from someone on 3si who lives in Spokane asking about dyno's in seattle (which I know nothing about having done all that in another state) I looked up some info for him since it would benefit me and apparently there are a million up here, two are 10 minutes from where I live.
Time to take a page out of Joe's book and dyno some cars.

[Sundance 6g72]

I would have tried harder to get a run in with the cams but I didn't see the cost benefit of it. Not having enough fuel would have produced a very similar power output.

Im taking donations for big injectors haha

[Sundance 6g72]

I'll have to remember to add both dyno sheets to the main post.

It was cool seeing 147hp na and 300-315 under 15psi. With pump gas I bet it would have been much lower but the great thing about e85 is you don't sacrifice timing.

[Shadow24]

I don't think anybody besides Brent, Mulhern, and "Lucy"(can't remember the person's name right now ) have actually been on a dyno that had any significant mods. I may be way off base there, though, but that's all I can remember. I

You mean me and my car? (Lucy 2.0) My dyno (189hp 201tq) was a stock motor 24v SOHC 6G72 swap with only intake/exhaust work and an MS-II on a crap tune. (that reminds me, now that she is up and running again and tuned better, i should dyno her a second time...)

[Sundance 6g72]

man 190hp prolly feels damn good in an NA car. Nice 40 more hp than mine was.


Ive been pondering making an intake again. I think the easiest route would be going twin intake like Ed has done on his car. Potential issues are hood clearance (not so worried about that) and how I route the turbo compressor outlet to the dual throttle bodies (would be a TD bolt pattern with dual 52mm).

I have no idea what dimensions I would want. I cant remember if you want to hold 1.5L of air or 3L? I forget what the rule is on that. If someone could figure out how many square inches are needed, that would be nice.



Reason im bringing this up is that we have plasma cutter that is computer controlled. Cant cut up to 3/4inch (maybe more) and etch words and designs onto parts.







The idea is to cut out the parts I need and even etch some fun stuff into the top piece. Maybe "Mitsubishi 6G72" and the Diamond logo somewhere. Would be pretty nice looking if made out of stainless. I could tig all the parts together and mig the box plenums to the stock intake. I dont really like the idea of migging Stainless to Aluminum but I cant see a better cost effective way of doing it. Building a lower intake does not sound fun and I cannot for the life of me find a Montero lower intake.


edit: and I might drive the neon (future neon, dont have one now :/ ) NA with the 3.0 for a little bit.

[c2xejk]

man 190hp prolly feels damn good in an NA car. Nice 40 more hp than mine was.


Ive been pondering making an intake again. I think the easiest route would be going twin intake like Ed has done on his car. Potential issues are hood clearance (not so worried about that) and how I route the turbo compressor outlet to the dual throttle bodies (would be a TD bolt pattern with dual 52mm).

I have no idea what dimensions I would want. I cant remember if you want to hold 1.5L of air or 3L? I forget what the rule is on that. If someone could figure out how many square inches are needed, that would be nice.

General rule is the larger the plenum the more power the engine will make, but the laggier the throttle will be. You probably want at least 3L of combined volume, but I doubt 6L on a NA engine will be a problem.

- - - Updated - - -

Would a lower intake from a Diamante work? I think a yard near me may have one.

[Sundance 6g72]

im not sure. The Diamante cars ive ran into both were missing their intakes IIRC. I think the reason the montero lower works is because we need the TB on the passenger side, which it provides because its a RWD platform wile the stealth and other cars are FWD and have their TB on the driver side.

The T stat on the stealth bumps into stuff when mounted "backwards" and its placed on the opposite side of the engine bay when its modded to work. Kind of annoying.

edit: as far as dimensions, I think i will do something that is as tall and wide as the 52MM TB requires and then just make the length long enough to fit 3L and see how big that really is and increase as necessary if its not long enough.

[Ondonti]

The Junkyard has 6L right now but I would probably go slightly smaller (4.5-5L?) if I had to save space. I think calculation wise the runner ID is only 1.38" in the slight velocity stacks and this is why I want to make another manifold. I was never happy with this and it was a mistake I didn't realize until too late. Should have been 1.5" at least for what I was shooting for. This probably helps improve some things that the large plenum hurts. I think having a huge TB will negate most throttle lag but then you get back into poor throttle control. I am okay with poor throttle control in a non daily driver.

I don't know what lower I will use on my next setup. I have a Diamante VICS (variable runner) manifold sitting around, I want a standard one. I still don't know if VR4 fuel rails fit on the Montero lower so that is keeping me from fantasizing much. I want my next set of large injectors (by large I mean much larger) to be a bolt in style setup without wacky custom fuel rails setups.

[Sundance 6g72]

I think I confused my self when talking about T stat placement with the Stealth manifold. In stok form its located on the passenger side. With the Stealth manifold mounted backwards it puts the T stat and TB on the driver side. Hacking the stealth plenum off is fine but modding the lower intake to fit the t stat is not what I want to do. Unless somoone has a better idea of how to go about it than I do. Having a single larger TB would be more preferable than two 52mm TB on a dual intake setup (this way has its own downfalls, esspecially with a turbo setup)

Im going to make a rought CAD of my intake for now. I was thinking about mounting the lower intakes runners slightly into the bottom of the plenum and then welding them in place from the inside. The weld might not be very nice though because ill be using Stainless steel and the lower intake is crappy cast aluminum. I could weld it and then round everything off with epoxy? The goal is a little velocity stack. Or I could weld everything up on the inside and outside and then grind the inside flush. Im not sure which is the bestway to go.

Ill do some calculations on length x width x height and see what gets over 4L but less than 5. Im not worried about having something HUGE esspecially for a turbo motor that is not going to go for some high revving horsepower record. If that was the case id use something like eds twin 80MM TB. Those things are nasty but hard to DD without some sort of progressive pedal setup (which i dont like the idea of)

[Sundance 6g72]

this isnt done yet and some of the dimensions need changing and tweaking but im getting there.

I can program our machine to do things in a certain order. First job would be to engrave the logo and text, followed by cutting out that part. As of right now, it looks like each plenum will have about

12.125 L x 3.5 H x 3 W = 127.31 square inches. = 2L x 2 = 4L

They wont be overly big. I might be able to widen them without running into space issues. I dont think I can make them any shorter though. I also need to find a plenum gasket to trace the lower intake holes.



edit: facebook appears to have killed the resolution so its hard to make out. Im not going to fix that because its not even a finished product.. but you get the idea.

[Sundance 6g72]

okay here is the finished dimensions. I need to add any holes I might use for vacuum ports. Im thinking Ill have a hose connect both plenums in the middle. The hose will have a vacuum block for the MAP, Boost, etc. I will also need something for the break booster.

the walls will be 11gauge all around except for the TB flange (3/8inch). Im not sure how will ill be able to thread holes in 11 gauge steel. Also, Im not sure if ill even bother using stainless because I doubt we have 3/8th stainless laying around.

I think ill need to trace the letters in order to have them engraved.

[c2xejk]

For the base (I assume this is to bolt onto a Chrysler lower), I would go with thick stock so the entry can be radiused. The distributor is the limiting factor for placement and length of the front plenum.

Ed - kmperformance.com

[Sundance 6g72]

I was thinking of welding them to the lower intake. I know it has been done before.

Two reasons for this - shorter runners to complement my 'big cams' and it's easier than making something capable of bolting down and being easy to remove.

The intake can be pernament because the dual intake allows the lower intake to be removed without removing a big plenum first.

The dizzy and alt are real annoying. I know the dizzy can be clocked toward the radiator to make room. I'd like to do that but I'm not sure what's involved.

[Sundance 6g72]

The more I read the more I am thinking steel to aluminum welding just won't work. I know it has been done by someone on these forums but maybe they just were not smart (not talking about Ed. I'm not sure how your dual intake was attached, Ed)

I can't think of a better way than just using aluminum on the entire thing. I cam tig well but my aluminum tig abilty is not the greatest.. at least not right now. I'll be getting some experience in aluminum tig soon though.

[Reaper1]

Brent (Ondonti) is the person who welded steel and aluminum together...kind of. He still had to cover it with epoxy.

I can't remember if this has ever been brought up, but I'll throw this out there: We all know how very large throttle bodies screw with part throttle engine response. Well, why don't we take a page from the "old days" and have a primary throttle body along with a secondary throttle body? Hmmm...sounds familiar....kind of like a 4bbl carb! I guess they kinda knew what they were doing after all.

[Sundance 6g72]

Okay, let's go with Brent . I don't mind making fun of him.

Like I said earlier, I'm not really going for record setting numbers. 4L and two 52mm will be much better than stock.

I tried aluminum today. Not as bad as I thought. My welds will be fine on an aluminum intake. I'm only going to get better


That was my first attempt on aluminum in 3 years. Once I got the pulse settings just right, it worked out.

So aluminum tb flange 3/8th thick with 11 gauge aluminum everywhere else. Will add holes to various locations for ports to be added. Most likely secured by threads and locktight.

[c2xejk]

The more I read the more I am thinking steel to aluminum welding just won't work. I know it has been done by someone on these forums but maybe they just were not smart (not talking about Ed. I'm not sure how your dual intake was attached, Ed)

I bolted on mine. If you get the plenums too low, you will have to pull the intake to pull the valve covers...