Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

[Vigo]

So is that idle quality AFTER trying to make it idle better with MS?

[Ondonti]

So is that idle quality AFTER trying to make it idle better with MS?

Well the cams probably ruined his VE table near idle rpms so AFR would have been off by 10-30%. Thats not saying its perfect now :P

[Sundance 6g72]

It was ----- to get it to idle right but my timing was all messed up as well (dizzy not set right, needed to set base timing). I got it to idle and then I set the timing correctly. I think that made me chase my tail for a little bit. Im idling closer to atmospheric than I was before, in an area of the map I had never tuned because I had never idled/driven in that area, not sure how much the same would have changed anything.

I love when you update this thread! It always motivates me to work on my car more. That exhaust note is sick!

thanks Might have it running on the highway this weekend, Im hoping to get it insured tomorrow.

Clearances are one thing but I do agree it is hard to go too far with cams performance wise.

My big cams with a 1.5 ratio rocker got maybe .5 to 1 mpg less driving to work, if that. Stock ecu, stock timing, stock heads, Holset setup. Oh boy the top end is not the same without them. Wished that rocker setup was not flawed or that I had clearances on that stock head cause I do not like vss replacement with head on motor in car.

What base fuel pressure you running and what size are those injectors again? I was out of fuel at about 12-13 on MS2 and my 47# injectors but I was spraying a load of 100% methanol. I think that was with pretty low base pressure because I was not happy with low pulse width performance (idle, junky modified injectors with bad spray pattern). Amazing how much farther a RRR will take you on small injectors as long as your fuel pump can hang, especially when you are running gasoline and not E85.

BTW i was shocked about my MPG performance because I was certain that being forced back to stock cams was going to give me some amazing MPG gain. It did not. I couldn't believe it since my cruising rpms are all in the low 2000 range which a big cam should destroy efficiency at.

stock stock bone stock fuel pressure. I considered getting a regulator and bumping the pressure to 55-60psi, My buddy seemed to think that would be a good band aid for my small injectors (46-48# or something like that, e85)



I have a new laptop running windows and various Ubuntu Linux distros, im dying for a chance to use it in the car. Its amazing how much more powerful this thing is yet it gets much better battery life than my old junk. Intel i7, 8gb ram, nvidea 635M graphics, 1080p display. I like it.



The Samsung SSD is the best part about it. Boot into windows in under 15 seconds. Perfect for tuning the car, constantly shutting down and booting up at various parts of the night. I cant have it booted and logging before we go do any runs without making people wait for me That was my main issue for not logging my races.

The android apps are pretty cool too. Phil needs to hurry up and get Shadow Dash finished. right now its just a logger that outputs MLV files but he says he is porting everything from tuner studio into it, it just takes time.

I have another android app that does let me adjust my tune, MSDroid. No more excuses.

[Ondonti]

I think that MSdroid guy is from Utah too so I probably know someone who knows him :P I didn't ask around yet. I guess I can go buy all those bluetooth goodies now. My laptop battery is complete junk now but I think I will finally just get a replacement so I can tune. That lappy sounds expensive but effective.

With E70, I did 30# injectors to 16psi with no methanol on the bone stock motor to 117mph on a normal hotwired walbro intank pump. That probably had my fuel pressure up around 100psi or more (not sure). I feel like that was the ragged edge of the fuel pump for flow vs pressure. I would think 70psi base plus 15psi boost pressure (85psi) would be pretty safe for you and the walbro. I bet 75psi base would still be safe and maybe get you close to 20psi boost.... You might be using more fuel then I was at the same boost pressure with cams installed. The tough thing about 70psi base is making sure you can still idle. My injectors are just terrible for that but if yours can pull it off, no harm! If you decide to push the fuel system, change out the fuel filter again if you have not. Make things easy on that pump. E85 is going to be a little more demanding on the fuel system and for my required fuel I was changing AFR based on the stoich AFR of the supposed ratio I was using (E70 would have a higher stoich AFR then your E85). Modified intank walbro would also be able to handle a much higher increase in base fuel pressure.

When I had messed with fuel pressure I just used an online injector calculator and change my required fuel to try to minimize how off things are. Thing about the 3.0 is that our stock fuel pressure regulator is 48psi so your injectors are already acting bigger then advertised (advertised rating at 43psi probably). 70psi would get you about a 20% gain in fuel flow. Enough for maybe 14-5 pounds of boost unless you think your IDC's are in an unsafe area. If I could get mine to idle I would have no problem with running 80 or 90 base with my duel inline pumps. Seems scary to have that much fuel pressure but the RRR gets things a lot crazier then that though only for short spurts.
I know you talked about bigger injectors at some point. Definitely less risk except making sure the thing idles. Red Sled is running FID (Fuel Injector Development) 2000's as of right now. I was looking at ID injectors but the price scares me for the 2000's and the 1000's might not be enough. A set of 6 FID750 would probably cost about $430 before tax or $540 for some 1000's. I want some 2000's but that price is so high even with a cheaper company. They also have a 1200 that is about 99 per injector. Not as closely matched as ID injectors but that is what you pay for. I know Chris hill still used 160# oldschool low impedence injectors (with resistor pack) in his 800/800 vr4 with no problems.

[Sundance 6g72]

well I wont be making that much power :P

I think 750-850 will be fine and still let me idle. I think mine right now are 500-550cc? At the same thought, 95# (1000cc) are the same price as the 750,850 offered on DYI's site.

I just want to be able to turn the boost up a little more, I know this turbo has more.. Ive had blown off IC pipes and still been able to make 5-6psi, talk about a overworked turbo.

[Reaper1]

Yeah...blown off hose making boost is a great way to frag a turbo quick.

[Irocelectric93]

Glad to see this car is still in your interest. How you like Ubuntu? I went completely to linux on my dell laptop that i use for MS. It takes some getting used to but i like it better myself. I know Ryan likes/prefers linux. What injectors are you running again? Did we ever decide if low impedence injectors could be run on a V3 board without changing the circuit?

[Sundance 6g72]

Ubuntu is great. I fell in love with the latest Ubuntu-Gnome (13.04), its much better than Unity. Unfortunatly Java has an issue running correctly with Gnome... Its not just the EFI software, but in some other software too. It does this funny thing when I click drop down menus. Running Ubuntu with unity fixes the problem.. I hope they fix it soon because the latest Gnome is much better than Unity imo.

The thing about linux is the spotty driver support. My laptop is a powerfully Intel/Nvidea computer and it runs great under linux, My AMD desktops dont though. AMD cpus are fine but my AMD graphics cards tend to have bad drivers... So far so good with the laptop but Im not sure if it will like my serial to USB cable for tuning. Im dual booting with windows 7 so no big deal. The main reason I am using Linux is for school and being connected to a public network, makes things safer that way.

My injectors are from ZZP (bosch?) I talked to diy and they said a v3.57 board will work with low or high impedence. I think the 3.0 board is different but who knows.

[Irocelectric93]

Cool. Glad to hear about the injector thing. I have a v3.57 board in my MS. I need to change my version of ubuntu myself actually and yes i feel your pain on the spotty driver support. Gotta love an OS that is only about 4gb though. Very low operating requirements. Dual booting is the way to go unless youre like me and have a whole other laptop that you dont need for anything else.

[Trev16v]

I think that MSdroid guy is from Utah too so I probably know someone who knows him

Nope - I'm in the UK, and the other two contributors are Dave (UK) and Seb (Canada).

The example log with GPS data that comes bundled with the app was done by a friend in Utah though.

[Sundance 6g72]

^ ^ ^ :O





While we are on the topic



MS droid seems to have all the relevant tables and settings that you would use in Tuner Studio. Its the perfect solution to fixing a part of the tune without needing your laptop. I love it.














This one is shadow dash, sweet logging app. I need to get my laptop dash running on the phone

[Reaper1]

Wow! Now THAT is pretty F'n sweet!!

[Sundance 6g72]

My buddy has a full size tablet mounted in his conquest for this exact reason. Music and tuning with a touch interface

[Ondonti]

The problem I see with a dash setup is powering on/off. Killing your battery or always waiting for shutdown/startup.

[Sundance 6g72]

I dont think it will be an issue. Relay turns power to the tablet on/off when you key on. When the car is off, the tablet still has decent battery life (plenty for stand by)

[shayne]

^thats pretty cool, i am wondering about this kind of thing and ms in the future.

[Vigo]

I bought most of my cars for less than what a new tablet costs. But it's still cool.

[Irocelectric93]

Didn't Una do something like this but with a laptop? Pre tablet stuff i suppose. I'm going to get a tablet for this reason. I've wanted to make a clean mounting setup for a while now in my daytona.

[Ondonti]

I dont think it will be an issue. Relay turns power to the tablet on/off when you key on. When the car is off, the tablet still has decent battery life (plenty for stand by)

I guess the worst that could happen is you have to boot up the phone after turning the key on if you didn't drive for awhile. I have a spare T959 that gets to live in my Duster I guess
Is that permanently installed or easy to remove?

[Sundance 6g72]

Its easy to remove but "permanent". It controls the music in the car with tuning ability as a plus.