Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

[Sundance 6g72]

speaking of which, i have a timing light in the back seat of my car. Ill finally get to doing that :P

i never thought of timing belt stretch effecting spark timing but it does make sense!


if i understand things right, i can wire a crank position sensor in without modding my MS box physically? only mods would have to be 2 coil drivers? (to make 3 total, i would run GM coil packs)

[Ondonti]

Guessing you don't actually know your gaps before and after.

Find out what the gap is and drop it a bit. Your car will still run very well with a .030 or so gap. The NGK 9's with recess tip come pregapped at .031 just for info.

I can't run much boost with Megasquirt because I am conservative with dwell since mine won't reset (old circuit). Yours should reset automatically so you can get much hotter. Ignoring voltage correction, I believe that Neon guys are running near 6 OEM but the resettable circuit cannot match OEM. There is a bigger circuit.

Not sure what RPM you would no longer have time for complete dwell. I have not messed around with it because it has not been a concern to try to make more power on megasquirt. We will hopefully see how mine goes. I plan on keeping a single coil and probably a KB boost-a-spark unless I upgrade ECU.

[RoadWarrior222]

Yah for the love of Pete, try setting your ignition to a spec, any spec, just as long as you know what it is, before messing with it or modding it again.

[Sundance 6g72]

Brent made sense... U not so much

[87turbodance]

If going with the crank sensor for wasted spark, you may need to to make some minor mods to the tach input ciruit on the MS. You can choose to use a hall-effect or make a different wiring change inside the MS to use a Ford VR sensor. Theoretically, a Chrysler hall-effect crank position sensor should work without any changes inside the MS case, but ED is having some issues that I believe will be resolved my making some internal wiring changes. I make the same changes to mine as I recommended to Ed some time ago when I first started using a hall-effect crank sensor.

If you want to run super high current, high dwell ignition coils, the coil driver should be mounted and wired slightly different for better heat dissipation and higher current wiring.

Higher dwell and current doesn't mean a hotter spark if the ignition coil is already saturated - it can mean burnt coils and coil drivers.

[Sundance 6g72]

i have what i think is a neon crank sensor.. should work too. It was replaced on my friends neon but that didnt fix the problem so im thinking the sensor is still good

[Sundance 6g72]

did some logging tonight. I want to upload the log, im waiting on ryan to get back to me on the site that we use for megasquirt uploads (i made an account but forgot what the site is!)

i like 5th gear response for boost.. seems like i get instant full boost at 3600rpms in 5th but 3rd needs to get into 4000rpms before it really kicks hard... 4th also has awesome response and i dont bog much at all on the 3rd to 4th shift. car felt fast tonight and i think i could hear a boost leak coming out of my passenger side intake piping.

timing is fixed also. I was about .5 -1 degree off. i dont know if i was advanced or retarded. the timing notch was to the left of the 10 degree mark

i still had the spark blowout issue and its making me mad (still have to change things and see if it helps)

im wondering if dropping dwell to 2.5ms might help (doubt it.. reving to 7000rpms N/A was fine with this dwell setting) maybe even spark duration? but im sure ill have to actually gap the plugs correctly :P

[87turbodance]

I use box.net to upload Ms files.

[Sundance 6g72]

yeep thanks. to bad i forgot what datalog it was o well, ill make another log if i cant fix the issue. I changed my 100kpa timing. I have ALOT of timing from 500-2500rpms at 100kpa and then i retard it a bit and that seems to have let me spool up faster. i think im hitting 8psi 500rpms earlier or even more. the turbo felt much more responsive and it goes like hell until i get blowout. I cant remember the last time i redlined 3rd due to it.

picked up a spark plug gapper. ive never done this so ill have to look it up while the car cools off.

[Sundance 6g72]

new plugs are gapped at .43 - .45 (for the front bank at least)

my old plugs were between .035 and .041

im almost poisitve that ill fix the issue with a nice .038 gap. i could probebly do .04 but i dont even know if thats sigificant or not.

i have yet to look at the rear bank but im sure its the same as the front bank. these plugs are still new and look good aside from the richness that they show. no speckles, nothing chipped, bent, broken

[paduster]

why did you go wider you should go smaller around .32 spec is .35. u need lees gap at higher cylinder pressures make it easier to spark

[Sundance 6g72]

You need to read previous posts. We all addumed my new ungapped plugs had to big a gap. This was correct. Car ran fine out of boost

Old plugs averaged .040 gap and were fine. Im now at .035 - .038. Test drive soon

[RoadWarrior222]

Oh, that's what it meant...

[Sundance 6g72]

well the new gap worked. not one sputter in 4th gear pulling to 6300rpms. Hit my limiter and my boost cut at the same time i think. map value at 6300 WOT was 191.2 and overboost is at 192kpa.. hmmm

I dont like that my boost creeps like that. its nice that you dont feel a power loss because boost is always rising (falling out of power band AND building boost)

it pulled hard and scared me... 10.1 - 10.5 :1 afr while above 10psi... more power to be had and im already scared. I wont be pulling like that everyday but whatever. im loving the dryhighways.. still probebly stupid to do that but i was curious.

[Sundance 6g72]

LOL "max duty cycle - 110"

ouch. guess thats waht 10.1 :1 afr at 6340rpms gets you.

its safe to say these injectors flow enough fuel though. 10.1:1 at 6000rpms 180kpa was almost 100 duty cycle. lean that out to 11.5 where it should be and im golden.

[Sundance 6g72]

http://box.com/files#/files/0/f/1951...1/f_1481746261

found something weird in my datalog from today. if you look at the "max map value" and then go back a little youl see the timing advance drop to 22* a could times when it should have been around 25-26*

im also concerned about coolant temp. It got up there during that run. I maintain around 190* coolant temp while cruising and it never rises randomly (as if i had air in the coolant) I think i might look into a junkyard upgrade.


edit: ! ! !DOH that was my rev limiter starting to take effect. soft limiter.

[Ondonti]

I remember limiters doing crazy things to the timing. Also the clutch switch would pull weird amounts of timing even when I was lift shifting (flat shift functional).
Riding the limiter wheelspin makes it hard to interpret whats going on in datalogs.

Just thinking, I wonder what kind of limiter is better for hooking up. The super smooth limiter I was using vs one that cuts a few hundred rpms. Smooth = nobody thinks you are riding the limiter haha.

I always ran .044" on oem plugs since that seemed to be what they called out when I ran NGK V powers. ED was running .044 on a couple pounds of boost years ago. Not weird that you have to drop gap when boost goes up. .035 should be the T1/TII gap or something like that.

I would rather run as close as I can get to .035 on all gaps then knowingly run .035 to .038 just in case your .038's start blowing out. Very hard to notice slight blowout and when its just 1 or 2 cylinders its even harder. The fact that you were feeling strong blowout means you were long past the point where it had started. If you up the boost, drop that gap more to stay well away from blowout. You can see it causing undulations on a dyno chart before you can feel it.

[Sundance 6g72]

i like my limiter when im not in boost.. 1st gear plus no traction in the snow/ drit means i dont go into boost much at all and the spark retard ends up being perfect and makes the car sound like a rally machine.

i found my buddy in an empty parking lot drifting his jeep.. no ebrake here so all i could do was slide past him while riding my limiter and sounding cool :P

when pulling at full boost and then hitting the limiter, the spark retard brings my timing way to low and its like a brickwall instead of a fast paced POPOPOPOPOP.

[Ondonti]

I was doing 6950 soft and 7000 hard so it was very interesting sounding. Watching it in 2 vids it sorta sounds like a vibration. I never got good video of the flatshift sounds thanks to someone reformatting the disc on their camera. You have a good camera to take any sounds? I would never make any of those sounds around here. Near Bansheenut's house I did a clutch in and throttle in front of a school at midnight and it was just a bunch of gunshot sounds that killed my hearing so I have been afraid to do that since. Seems super illegal because of what it sounds like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz7jp...w&feature=plcp

[Sundance 6g72]

ill see what i can do. my current lineup for cameras is not good for videos. Friend of mine just got an idea to start a youtube channel about the local cars near us.. i think that might motivate him to get a nice camera.

i only get gunshots when letting off after a hard boost run.. a couple good pops and flames out the back... i might get lucky and have it go when im riding the limiter but ive only done that once recently