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Thread: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

  1. #841
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    11inch rotors ordered

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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)



    so what happens when you tune to the brink on 85 and then the next fill up happens to be 70?


    im curious about cams.. specifically what lift means? i know duration is how long the valve opens and is lift how far it is opened? so more lift equals more flow at the same rpm and duration?

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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    Theoretically...

    Might not necessarily mean more air, timing is everything so they say, what I mean by that is if you have excessive lift after the cylinder is rammed full, you start backflowing and losing some. But I prolly confused you now. Same thing with duration though. A lot of stuff like this you can "do" ahead of time and it runs like arse until you grow into it, it's why it's called tuning, some things need to be just enough and no more.
    DD1: '02 T&C Ltd, 3.8 AWD. DD2: '15 Versa Note SV, replacing.. DDx: '14 Versa Note SV << freshly killded :( ....... Projects: '88 Voyager 3.0, Auto with shift kit, timing advance, walker sound FX muffler on 15" pumpers wrapped in 215/65/R15 H rated Nexens.... and a '95 phord escort wagon PnP head << Both may need to go :( ..... I like 3.0s ... so??? ... stop looking at me like I've got two heads!

  4. #844
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    i kinda get what your saying


    NEW PLANS FOR THE CAR! starting right now, my car has to be proven to be 100% because i think im going to sdac this year in Detroit. as my birthday present and my dad's, my mom is going to ship us down there. not having a turbododge would make it not fun!

    im not afraid of the car grenading but i need to make sure i hold back on turning up the booost and reving super high just in case

  5. #845
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    Lift just means how far it opens, but ports can flow less at higher lift numbers. Max lift is just really important to know so you can ensure you have the proper clearances for the camshaft to fully actuate the valve. 3.0 intake port seems to keep wanting to flow more in stock form at higher lift but the exhaust does flatlines. Its not a good idea to figure out your own cam when you are not sure how they work. You can always talk to a cam grinder locally if you want to have an adventure. That is what I did when I lived in Utah. I hope he is in the business when I get my next cam set.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  6. #846
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    well my delema is this.. i want to rev to 7000rpms and im not sure what current cam to go with. rick's daytona cam sounds like a good option but did that car ever see above 6200rpms?

    i wouldnt mind a little rumble at idle either.. i just seem to be building max boost as my torque curve starts to go down (based on my old dyno sheets).

    i just want to understand what im getting too.. its one thing to brag about something and its another to understand what it is.

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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    cams for the 3l are available through turbovanman, his cam guy has three "stages" (i hate that word). one is a rv cam, ~256 adv duration, the next is somewhere like ~268 adv duration, the last is somewhere around ~274 adv duration. there is real numbers around somewhere, but i dont have them handy. the rv cam is supposed to be friendly to the stock computer.
    just a thought.
    ive gone that route myself, "rv" cams that is. theyre a good chunk hotter than the diamante cams. shoot him a pm im sure he could get you the info if you want.

  8. #848
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    ill keep it in mind. with megasquirt i want to rev to 7000rpms with my cams and eventually get ported heads and valve springs. but thats for the furture

    dsm graveyard is not to far from me. if they can do it in a day (who knows?) i will make a day trip over there and get some cams without having to pay shipping twice.

    thanks for the info though

  9. #849
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    For the price I would go with Lozier cams. Proven performers. That style of profile will start falling off before 7k so you won't be reving way beyond that and making good power but you won't be hurting.

    Cam grinds should cost around 100 dollars a camshaft. If you are paying more then there is a large markup or you better be getting something amazing.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    Yep i think crower quoted me $100 a cam.. ill see what the dsm guys want and make my choice. If you think thats the choice i should make then i will.. though i do think it would be cool to have a slight rumble at idle .

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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    I think its funner to try out something new.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    Bite the bullet and try something custom? If i can get hold of some flow numbers for stock heads...

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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    Quote Originally Posted by shayne View Post
    cams for the 3l are available through turbovanman, his cam guy has three "stages" (i hate that word). one is a rv cam, ~256 adv duration, the next is somewhere like ~268 adv duration, the last is somewhere around ~274 adv duration. there is real numbers around somewhere, but i dont have them handy. the rv cam is supposed to be friendly to the stock computer.
    just a thought.
    ive gone that route myself, "rv" cams that is. theyre a good chunk hotter than the diamante cams. shoot him a pm im sure he could get you the info if you want.
    Hey Shayne, we've been waiting for independent info on those cams for ages, so if you could put up a fuller review sometime, or point us to a previous post about them that would be great.
    DD1: '02 T&C Ltd, 3.8 AWD. DD2: '15 Versa Note SV, replacing.. DDx: '14 Versa Note SV << freshly killded :( ....... Projects: '88 Voyager 3.0, Auto with shift kit, timing advance, walker sound FX muffler on 15" pumpers wrapped in 215/65/R15 H rated Nexens.... and a '95 phord escort wagon PnP head << Both may need to go :( ..... I like 3.0s ... so??? ... stop looking at me like I've got two heads!

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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    no worries, all in due time, ive been scouring the net and havent found very much useful info yet myself.
    for me i want the cams to pull lower in the total rpm range and the porting and turbo will be pulling the upper rpm range. the rv cam ive got has significantly less overlap than stock (when front compared to front and rear compared to rear) and it will create more efficient exhaust energy to get it to drive the turbine quicker. a hotter style cam for turbo's are a little slushy down low and rely on porting and strong efficiency to get to the point in the rpm range where the cams events are going to do a efficient job of spooling the turbine.
    if you dont have a properly ported head and intake upper and lower to take advantage of the more rpms and you just put in hot cams to pull to 7000rpm than your in for disapointment when you see your car has slowed down for 90% of your powerband. cams are meant to be chosen to compliment your engine build and power goals, you shouldnt go ahead and throw a hot race cam like ordonti's 274? cam into your street car with stock manifolds and stock unported lower intake and unported or very mildly ported heads, you should choose a more moderate cam that you can use more for your intended purpose.
    also why does everyone have a sweet spot for loziers cam? his car was a hot n/a car with no2 not turbocharged. hot n/a cams and hot turbo cams are wildly different. shoot an email to a large camshaft company and ask for their personal thought on this subject. if those 268 cams from loziers car have more overlap than stock which is what the cam card interprets as (the lobe separation angle is the same as stock) than the overlap is increased which would spell disaster as far as exhaust reversion with stock manifolds and a turbo, and the exhaust lobe is really too long overall, which makes sense for a n02 car where you need to get all of the extra energy out the cam winds up biased that way like a superchrarger cam. for a turbo cam you want less overlap and altered exhaust valve timing to create a strong pulse from a cylinder to drive the turbine. as your duration goes up for more performance then the cam guy assumes you have properly ported heads and likely some kind of tubular turbo manifold as well as a larger turbine that wont be as restrictive down low to allow the car to run down low without exhaust reversion, which is why the big boys who run big power use tubular manifolds and hot cams and they dont expect spool until much higher in the rpm range, which isnt as fun on the street, where you want it to pull sooner. you need to decide your goals for the car, whether you want a race car, or a usefull street car with a strong turbo motor.
    Last edited by shayne; 01-14-2012 at 02:41 PM.

  15. #855
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)



    well i have plans to get a custom upper intake done at some point, same with mild porting but nothing intense... so i want to take those into consideration. the rear exhaust manifold will be replaced by a custom log manifold built by me (at some point... i have to actually take the time to do this) and maybe replace the front.

    so i dont want to have to buy cams twice, thats the problem. i dont think my car could get much worse as far as my setup goes. i have a decent sized turbo paired with small mini van cams along with a stock capped off rear manifold... my boost hits hard when my tq curve for N/A would normally be going down. id like to see a dyno of the car now because i bet tq dosnt drop off because boost hits hard.. making it look better than it really is. i seem to hit boost hard when peak tq happens but then it goes down from there..

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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    Loziers cam has a nice bump in duration without increasing lift which can be a problem for us. The specs on the cams you are talking about are questionable because the supposed lift numbers with our actual 1.6:1 rocker ratio (its not 1.5" are a bit higher then expected).
    Lozier cam is not extreme, its similar to a RPW stage 2 cam which is a street cam.
    I do not run a Lozier cam and I don't really plan on it. If someone does not want to experiment then its something I am comfortable suggesting. I can't give props to unknown parts when money is tight.

    Also, 3.0 n/a cams are nowhere near even 2.2/2.5 turbo or n/a cams so a stage 2 cam is really just getting you up to par with more aggressive OEM cams. The cams were designed for very very low end power and the auto transmissions were supposed to shift ( ~5500 )just as power nosedived so it didn't matter. When you have the ability to rev 2000 rpms higher then OEM wanted you to then you need to think differently, especially when trying to take advantage of your displacement. The big hp gains are made by making power higher up and while that normally is an expensive route, the 3.0 is cheap to rev. Few motors out there like to rev beyond where the manufacturer intended. Me, I don't understand why they used a reving bottom end for industrial use. I just like taking advantage of it!

    I have my own cylinder head flow numbers as well as numbers from Ed's bench. I did a stock vs my own ported comparison for comparison sake so the numbers were more useful. Even if the port stalls and stops gaining flow, by spending a longer duration at the highest flow point you are still going to see gains in the higher rpms. Drag v8's with nasty cams can barely idle and they do NOT make low rpm HP (small peak torque).
    A nice turbo cam for a 3.0 can be fun. One thing to also remember is when you have 3 liters, your vehicle still weighs the same as when it has 4 cylinders. A little lag might kill the v6 fun but it will still be more responsive then a 4 cylinder with any sort of turbo upgrade.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    sorry to come across as a dick, if i were in your shoes, id get the manifolding sorted out first, along with the porting and any other supporting modifications done to the car. then id worry about a cam, because then you can buy one to suit your set up, power goals and rpm range.

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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    hey, i dont mind helpfull advice!

    cams really arnt coming into the picture yet.. i just figured id find prices and such due to a regrind place being a simple drive from my house

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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    Cams seemed to work quite well with decent log manifolds and a stock head. Cam won't help spool at all so there would be a more severe tradeoff. I miss my big cam in my daily.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  20. #860
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    yeah im starting to think i should get a custom rear log built first and see how that helps spool

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