Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

[Ondonti]

Its just a warmup turbo. Remember my original setup was an Ebay turbo, pretty large one, but still ebay turbo. You can stay forever with your warmup turbo unless it decides to blow up.

It does sound like there was some power on the table with AFR more like a 12.5-12.9 and other things you mentioned. It is cool going on a dyno at the start, then being able to hit the dyno with turbo.

6 cylinders can make about as much HP as they have # of injector x10. That is if you run a real EMS setup.
The Duster on E70 and 47# injectors ran out of fuel with megasquirt at 13 or 14 pounds (that was with supplemental 100% methanol in 2500cc flavor. On Rising Rate regulator, and only 33# injectors, it did not run out of injector, but out of fuel pump above 20psi. :P The pump was okay most of the time but you need to have a large margin of safety on your pump for those times it bogs down.
Everyone should know that from watching me go boom boom.
300whp is possible on those injectors he has. With increased fuel pressure he can probably make a lot more if he has enough fuel pump. Hotwire the pump and you have more to play with. I also suggest blocking off the bypass without breaking the pump in the process like I JUST did.

There is also a huge difference between running out of fuel injector according to megasquirt, and actually running out of fuel and going boom boom. I was running 9+ millisecond pulse widths so that is why I decided I was out of fuel on Megasquirt. Not that I can remember now why 9 milliseconds is the limit.

[Sundance 6g72]

i really think 300hp will be to much for my car.. i remember watching your videos and hearing the car chirp into 4th gear on low boost and other videos where it wants to drive off the road

im playing with megasquirt right now. i have 87turbodance's tune loaded right now. im changing a few things (by looking at his settings, he was using low impedance injectors, i changed that)

one thing that im worried about is his VE table with 30# injectors. im pretty sure it was set for 30s, i changed the injectors size to 19# but will the VE table account for that change or am i going to run lean (smaller injectors, same pulse width as big injector)

remember im starting with 19# injectors and ill move up to my 33# when i install everything

[Vigo]

Brent's stability problems were not something most people would ever see. Remember that with an OBX or other torque-biasing differential if one side loses traction the other side is going to get even more power than normal and push the car in the direction of the traction loss. Great for autocross, bad for 80+mph wheelspin. Most people either wont have the power to spin at that speed, or wont have the same diff, or wont have drag radials on when it happens (instead of spinning on both sides), etc etc.

[87turbodance]

87turbodance's [/I]tune loaded right now. im changing a few things (by looking at his settings, he was using low impedance injectors, i changed that)

one thing that im worried about is his VE table with 30# injectors. im pretty sure it was set for 30s, i changed the injectors size to 19# but will the VE table account for that change or am i going to run lean (smaller injectors, same pulse width as big injector)

remember im starting with 19# injectors and ill move up to my 33# when i install everything

I have only ever run 19lb injectors. Initially I had low impedance but now I run high impedance injectors.

Here is a link to the tune I currently run. This is a MS1 Extra HiRes tune so the VE table would need to be exported and imported into a MS2/MS3 tune.

I went an exported them and put them here

[Sundance 6g72]

hmm.. maybe i had changed it from 19# to 30# a while ago and forgot i did that. originally i planned on running 30s so it makes sense now


ill download your current tune, it sounds like it will work flawlessly with my current setup (19#, high impedance)

[Sundance 6g72]

boost gauge is now calibrated correctly. i get between what looks like -2psi and once the car is really hot under the hood i get -4 to -6 psi looks like i need a better cold air intake but im really not worried about it because the turbo is going in anyways. i will probably port my 52mm throttle body a little bit when the turbo goes on (did my friends recently, it was easy to get a mild porting and polishing on it.. basically just cleaning up the rough edges)

Megasquirt should be here tomorrow for sure! ! ! tracking says its in Grand Rapids Michigan.. thats a 45min drive from my house.. unless you drive a duster, then its a 25min drive

EXCITED!

[Vigo]

If that gauge is right you SHOULD be worried about that vacuum number. Turbo-patch-job isnt going to address the issue.

[Ondonti]

Either the gauge is causing problems or you have a huge restriction. How high are you reving? The higher you rev, the worse it should get.


The drag radials made that crap scary. It was worse when I had those small tires on the rear. Drag radials just want to grab even when you have too much power for them.
I can say that I am unhappy with the Spirit's suspension. All it has right now are stock springs, clamped front springs, and Gas Adjust rear shocks. When boost hits the front end picks up and when you hit the brakes the car weight transfers in an uncomfortable manner.
Not really sure what I am going to do about that. The Duster is eventually going to lose all its suspension parts but I was not trying to advance that particular timeline.

My P body does feel a lot more confident. I don't know how much of that is the suspension (Just S/T springs, gr2 front, air shocks rear). Its been like 5 years since I stole the suspension off my Spirit so I can't even remember what a firm suspension feels like on my Daily. Its funny that I never even think about it, until the car makes a few weird movements that sketch me out and I think "wow, this suspension is NOT ready for boost."
I have never driven a P body with stock suspension. Don't know what they feel like. Slightly modified oem type parts in a lighter P body will probably beat out OEM AA body stuff in an AA body.
I think something a suspension should do is instill confidence.


The Fuel injector calculation in Megasquirt does not change VE. All it does is change part of the fueling equation. When Megasquirt is calculating fuel, it uses your fuel injector flow as a constant, then it takes the measured MAP and RPM values so it can VE. VE is then added to the equation to get the proper fuel for your RPM/MAP. Its a dang simple equation but it is just amazing for anyone used to ghetto boost fueling.
I do not have my accell enrichments where I want them and that's probably the most important thing for drivability. I used some Modified Neon values that I found then changed them around. Tried a lot of things. I found that one sucky thing is that I go Lean for a split second on throttle tip in during hard gear changes, but if I change my accell enrich to deal with that, it runs like crap in town.The reason why it scared me was because i was already back in boost and it would go lean for a split second and then come back down. I don't know how much AFR lags behind other measurements (how off is AFR on the timeline of events compared to the condition that created the AFR?).

[Force Fed Mopar]

Don't forget that psi is different from InHg. -6 psi is about 12" Hg.

[Sundance 6g72]

If that gauge is right you SHOULD be worried about that vacuum number. Turbo-patch-job isnt going to address the issue.

by -2 psi i mean HG or whatever the gauge reads for vacuum. Thats literally 1 notch under 0. from what i understand, its hard as hell to get 0 when WOT


the car pulls hard and has the same reading all the way to redline.

---------- Post added at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 PM ----------

Don't forget that psi is different from InHg. -6 psi is about 12" Hg.

i was at -2hg then... so that makes alot more sense i guess...

[Force Fed Mopar]

I think normal idle vacuum is around 18-22" Hg in general. Not sure what a V6 runs exactly, my 2.2 turbo idles at about 18-19"Hg w/ a mild cam.

[Sundance 6g72]

my idle is around 20. im talking WOT its at -2hg (very close to 0)

ported intake
intake spacers
52mm throttle body
open element filter on ghetto intake

im not sure what the reading should be for a stock car but i thought i was doing pretty good....

[Force Fed Mopar]

Sounds about right.

[Ondonti]

Makes more sense! haha.

[Sundance 6g72]

you guys had me scared

[Vigo]

2" hg is about 1psi, just as a rule of thumb.

I still think it's a problem. Ive NEVER seen a car that still had 4-6" of vacuum at WOT, and MOST of the vehicles ive ever measured had completely stock intakes!

[bond_bbs]

May depend where he's pulling the signal from. The rear port in the middle is where I would get the signal from. The top corner port may show more vacuum because of it's proximity to a runner.

Edit: The ports I'm referring to are on the plenum.

[Sundance 6g72]

2" hg is about 1psi, just as a rule of thumb.

I still think it's a problem. Ive NEVER seen a car that still had 4-6" of vacuum at WOT, and MOST of the vehicles ive ever measured had completely stock intakes!

typically its at -1psi then.. i dont see how this is a problem.

ive read about the big honda guys reving to the moon trying to get 0psi and its just a difficult thing to do. granted its harder to do the higher you rev but when your running a 100mm Throttle body and some HUGE cams, anything is possible


also, i have the signal coming form the brake booster... it was VERY convenient but probably not the best spot.

i will change it if i get a funny boost reading when i am boosted

[Vigo]

2" at wot it not ideal but not abnormal.. I was going off your earlier post where you said "4 to 6 ". Whether it was 4-6"hg or 4-6psi it would still have been a problem.

[Ondonti]

It does seem excessive since you are saying its happening at all rpms.