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Thread: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

  1. #1
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    Post Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    updated as of April 2014


    So the car no longer exists. I still have the trans and Engine sitting, ready for another project. This is all relevant info on the build. Its been almost 3 years sense this post was started (and even longer on turbo dodge.com)


    Setup

    Motor

    - Stock Rotating Assembly
    - 1G DSM headbolts used to hold main girdle in place
    - 270 Degree Cams
    - 3.3 dodge engine Valve springs (beehive, stiffer)
    - LS1 Retainers and Locks (lighter and work with the new springs)
    - stock headbolts, rod bolts, etc.
    - stock headgasket with copper spray. bolts tightened to 90ft lb

    Bolt Ons

    - KMP Crossover turbo mount
    - Custom made rear LOG manifold (not great but worlds better than stock)
    - Ported upper plenum
    - half inch spacers
    - 2.5inch downpipe custom made
    - 3inch catback
    - ebay turbo. Wheel sizes similar to a GT3076R
    - 3inch large FMIC
    - 42 (or 48?? cant remember) external wastegate

    Tuning and Fuel


    - 46 or 48lb injectors
    - walbro 255
    - Megasquirt II. Batch injection. 1 coil driver running the dizzy.
    - stock rail and regulator

    These are the project files for my engine. I included two folders; 2012 and 2013.

    2012
    - E85
    - Stock Cam
    - Custom hear exhaust header
    - ported Chrysler upper intake with half inch spacers.
    - 2.5inch downpipe with 3inch exhaust
    - lots of timing at 15psi (I think more than necessary). This was the difference between 300hp and 315hp however.
    - BIG intercooler (3inch piping)
    - AFR was 12.5-11ish, cant remember.
    - 46 (or 48) lb injectors at stock fuel pressure (whatever that is)
    - walbro 255 with stock lines
    - 3.3 valve springs and LS1 retainers and locks?
    - 1993 pistons (slightly lower compression)

    2013
    - 270 degree cams offered by 'turbovanman'
    - E85
    - timing relaxed a bit for safety concerns.
    - fuel map and timing map extended to fit more boost (I only ran 8psi because my injectors were too small to run anything more with the big cams)
    - everything else the same.

    The tune should not just be uploaded to your ECU. Firmware differences will come into play and mess things up. Its best to copy settings over setting by setting and then import the fuel/timing/afr maps over if you want. Anyone can download these, im all about open source.

    *Disclaimer* I started tuning this thing at age 18 knowing absolutely nothing. Im 21 now and still have much to learn about tuning so dont think his was professionally done. My tunes got me to school and work for 2-3 years so id say I did a decent job. Use at own risk

    link is to my dropbox, it should work https://www.dropbox.com/s/6y607qimo0...6g72_Tunes.zip



    edit: also note that I use e85. You can get pretty close to 93 octane numbers by pulling exactly 30% of the fuel from the fuel map (thats how I did it) or you can mess with the "required fuel" settings to pull 30% fuel. I found that taking 30% from the fuel map was the easiest because I could import an export the correct map for whatever fuel I was running that week. Also note, the timing for e85 is much more aggressive above 100kpa than I would have ran with e85. Im not sure how much timing I pulled when running 93oct, use at your own risk. The meth should help a ton as you know.

    Dyno in 2012 made 300 and 315hp on 15psi (injectors MAXED) with the lame turbo and stock cams. In 2013 the new cams were installed. The boost had to be dropped to 8psi to make the same horsepower (same injector duty cycle). Injectors are holding the power back right now and the cams did their job.


    2012 dyno pull at Steve Morris Engines (yes the same Steve Morris who won 2013 Drag Week)






    Click image for larger version. 

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    Other videos are on my channel. I hope to put this motor into a Neon in the future.
    Last edited by Sundance 6g72; 04-11-2014 at 02:21 AM.

  2. #2
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    Gotta love the instant torque at 2k rpms lol. I would love to see a pull from idle.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
    1992 Duster 3.0 The Junkyard- Now - Megasquirt II/Extra. OEM 10:1 3.0 + funny business
    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
    1994 Spirit 3.0 a670 - Wife's - Disassembled
    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1994 Duster 3.0 A543
    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  3. #3
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    I think you're gonna need bigger injectors
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC
    2.5 TIII swap is here!

    Project LookOwt
    '91 Daytona ES, 61k original miles, Rick Lozier's old 3.0 nitrous car
    Back to basics, then the mods go back on....

  4. #4
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Gotta love the instant torque at 2k rpms lol. I would love to see a pull from idle.
    the dyno guy wanted me to do it from 2200 or so and it was my first time so i didnt know if idle was a good idea

    but yeah, instant bragging rights right there with 160lbs at 2200rpms. cant ask for more than that. I love that toque curve.

    edit: pull was 4th gear (if that even matters) and it worked out because i think the rev limiter is right where the 120mph speed limiter is

    i think if i did a few things better i would have had some higher numbers. My cold air intake is kind of ghetto and could use some re working, my plenum spacers and plenum porting its self could have been better along with a ported throttle body (i ported my buddies last night.. such a piece of cake. i dont know why i havnt done mine yet.) that and if i bumped up the fuel pressure a tad (WOT 13.2 on the wideband. partial throttle is like 12.4 ) i think we would have had some slightly higher numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    I think you're gonna need bigger injectors
    ehh maybe for e85. im sticking with 93 pump for now. If i ever have a need for bigger injectors, ill have a bigger (higher quality) turbo and a dual pump setup first along with various other things that are more important

    i know of a few guys running 30# and they love it


    i think megasquirt gets here today, cant freaking wait

  5. #5
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    Boost gauge is in, hopefully have that installed today

  6. #6
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    I've always loved watching your progress on the other site, cuz your build is semi similar to mine.

    But don't forgot some of the small things - silicon couplers and clamps for IC tubing, strong vacuum/boost lines for your WG and boost gauge (my prosport gauge only came with 2 feet of boost/vac hose), a handful of colorful wiring - strip an old EEK and you can find matching colors - in 14 and 20wg to wire everything together, soldering iron, shrink wrap, wire wrap. This is all stuff that gets commonly forgotten until its needed.

    As for which gear the dyno run was done in - it does matter. A dyno run should be done in a gear that gives as close as possible to a 1:1 ratio. For most 5spds, that would be 4th.

  7. #7
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    What kind of turbo is it? 63 trim what?

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  8. #8
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    Quote Originally Posted by bond_bbs View Post
    I've always loved watching your progress on the other site, cuz your build is semi similar to mine.

    But don't forgot some of the small things - silicon couplers and clamps for IC tubing, strong vacuum/boost lines for your WG and boost gauge (my prosport gauge only came with 2 feet of boost/vac hose), a handful of colorful wiring - strip an old EEK and you can find matching colors - in 14 and 20wg to wire everything together, soldering iron, shrink wrap, wire wrap. This is all stuff that gets commonly forgotten until its needed.

    As for which gear the dyno run was done in - it does matter. A dyno run should be done in a gear that gives as close as possible to a 1:1 ratio. For most 5spds, that would be 4th.
    i only needed to use a few inches of the prosport vac line. i have the electronic sender. Im still working on getting it in but im getting close

    i have access to alot of those things you named off and i have some money set aside for those things that im sure to miss

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    What kind of turbo is it? 63 trim what?
    okay.. secrets out

    cx racing ebay .63 trim with a .60 AR. It has worked for a guy on the other side very well and he loves it. If i buy a nice turbo, its going to be a brand new bullseye power turbo but they are more than i can afford right now

    im getting it going on low boost with the cheep "proven" turbo first and ill move up.

  9. #9
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    Ahh.. okay.. I'm running my boost/vac analog, so I needed a bit more hose than that.

  10. #10
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    Well stock turbo 2.2's run 33# injectors, so... Of course, a stock 2.2 makes about the same power as the stock 3.0 w/ 2 less cyls lol, so that's probably why. What boost level are you gonna run?
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC
    2.5 TIII swap is here!

    Project LookOwt
    '91 Daytona ES, 61k original miles, Rick Lozier's old 3.0 nitrous car
    Back to basics, then the mods go back on....

  11. #11
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    yeah v6 needs smaller injectors

    right now im at 147whp and 168tq with stock 19# and stock fuel pressure.

    im going to start at 8psi and if im comfortable ill go to 12psi.

    i think ed made close to 300whp on 8psi? but dont quote me on t hat

  12. #12
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    boost gauge installed

    when car is off but key is in the on position, my gauge reads right under zero. and when i go WOT the gauge reads right under the spot that it red when the car was off

    it holds -2psi - -4 or so from 2000rpms to redline. once the car warmed up it was a little less

    i think you have to calibrate these gauges to get the 0psi when car is off correct but im not sure....... ill look into that.
    Last edited by Sundance 6g72; 06-23-2011 at 09:33 PM.

  13. #13
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    I still dont know what that turbo is. Trim numbers don't mean much without knowing what family of turbo it is because trim is just a ratio between the inducer and exducer diameters of a wheel.

    If you know what family of turbo it is, trim numbers mean something because USUALLY the exducer diameter is the same and you can work backwards from that.

    So is it something like a t3 or t4? A lot of turbos are t3 turbine and t4 compressor "hybrids" so it could be something like that as well.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  14. #14
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    they say its a T3 T4 turbo and it uses Wet Floating Bearings

  15. #15
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)


    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  16. #16
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    yes

    nothing special but it has gotten the job done for Dr shred on the other site

  17. #17
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    t70 compressor side is pretty darn big (but not too big, i think its good). It doesnt say what stage the exhaust wheel is but the pic there makes it look pretty big, maybe stg3? I think it will work well.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  18. #18
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    yeah they dont give much information on it.. im basically going by what shred said. I forget when he said he made full boost.. it wasnt too early and it held all the way to redline.

    im kind of wondering why the wastegate actuator has two vacume line hook ups.. ive looked at a few of my buddies turbos (t25 from a 1g dsm, a 2.2 mitsu turbo dodge turbo,) and they only have 1 on the actuator

    it makes sense to have one.. boost comes from the intake manifold or wherever you want and it goes to the actuator and once you hit 8psi it opens the wastegate.. but why two?

  19. #19
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wastegate

    "A dual port wastegate adds a second port on the opposite side of the actuator. Air pressure allowed to enter this second port aids the spring to push harder in the direction of closing the wastegate. This is exactly the opposite of the first port. The ability to help the wastegate remain closed as boost pressure builds can be increased. This also adds further complexity to boost control, requiring more control ports on the solenoid or possibly a complete second boost control system with its own separate solenoid. Use of the second port is not necessary."

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  20. #20
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    Re: Sundance 6g72 "3.0 turbo build thread"(N/A DYNO SHEET pics inside)

    hmm

    so which one is the second port???

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