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Thread: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

  1. #21
    turbo addict Chris W's Avatar
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    A little more history on this order....


    He purchased a turbo rebuild from us back in Jan '07. Our records do not indicate that he purchased a .63 A/R turbine housing but I would have to research that more to confirm.

    When he sent in his turbo for repair a few months ago the turbine wheel had sheared off and had bounced around so violently in the turbine housing that there was significant damage to the turbine wheel contour (See photo examples. Photos NOT of actual customer housing). The turbine wheel was actually jammed in the turbine housing so badly that a pry bar was necessary to remove it. After a full inspection we determined the failure was most likely due to oil starvation. The Turbonetics .63 A/R turbine housings are discontinued so we did not have alot of options to continue using it other then to move to a Stage 2 wheel. But, even after machining for the larger wheel there was still significant contour damage and we recommended a thin sleeve as a solution. Because of the larger turbine wheel in the .63 A/R we had to move to a larger compressor wheel otherwise there would not be enough airflow to drive the Stage 2.

    The turbo was completed and sent to the customer. He contacted us within a few days of installing it and complained of excessive smoking. I asked him to check for turbine shaft play and he responded that there was none. We told him the smoke could be from residual oil left in the exhaust system from the previous turbo failure and to continue running the engine to see if it goes away. He said the smoke did clear up for a while but would reappear after extended idling. He said there was significant oil in the intercooler and we told him it may also be from the previous turbo failure. We suggested that he flush the intercooler and try running the engine with the PCV system disconnected for a while. We recommended that he also go through our "smoking turbo" checklist we posted in the knowledge center.

    We asked him to check a few things including the spark plugs for signs of oil which he admittedly had not done yet. Based on all our future conversations with him we are unsure that he actually went through anything from the check list. He suddenly became more focused on accusing us of switching his turbo then solving the problem at hand. He also sent the attached pictures of the turbine housing and compressor cover accusing us of stealing his (see attached photos). I explained to him that we grabbed a clean compressor cover out of our stock and machined it for the new compressor wheel and that they are all the same internally. We were just trying to expedite his build along by not cleaning his original housing. He emailed us yesterday morning and said that he had contacted his CC company and had the charges reversed for the order (turbo, 3" SV, DP, etc. etc. =$1200+). He wanted us to send him another turbo for free and he would allow the CC charge to go through, then we would have to pay to have the first turbo returned to us. This is impossible because we don't have another .63 A/R turbine housing to build what he wants. He needs to send us his turbo back so we can properly evaluate it to see if there is anything even wrong. If the shaft is tight then it's probably something else causing the issue but we feel he has been reluctant to follow through with diagnosing the problem so a solution can be found.

    The reason we posted this on T-M was because he emailed us this:

    "Chris, so far it's just between me and you. If you want I can post the pictures on turbododge.com and see what they have to say about the housings."

    I told him don't bother, I wouldn't even go to TD.com to read it. I then decided to post it on T-M instead.


    Chris-TU
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    Chris Wright www.TurbosUnleashed.com Chris@TurbosUnleashed.com 602-76-BOOST Tech/Sales#: Monday-Saturday 9AM-7PM MST Proudly Serving the Turbo-Mopar Community since 1997 TU is a performance, not marketing company. We provide accurate performance data on all our performance products. Fabricating data to make us appear better is just not our style. Do the research before you buy. ROCK BOTTOM PRICES WITHOUT THE HIDDEN HANDLING FEES.... -----HOME OF THE 9 SECOND FWD T-M CLUTCH-----

  2. #22
    turbo addict Chris W's Avatar
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    I agree with you what it looks like JT. The dull rust color does make the star part blend in, but, when cleaned up and painted it stands out. The fact remains, that the star is there. Turbonetics only has one logo which never changed and he thinks his turbine housing was one that slipped by missing the star. I circled two flat spots on the upper turbine housing attaching bolt hole ears. They are clearly visible in both dirty and cleaned up turbine housing photographs.

    The order was $1200+. I wish we were only talking about $50. because that would have been resolved very quickly.

    Chris-TU
    Chris Wright www.TurbosUnleashed.com Chris@TurbosUnleashed.com 602-76-BOOST Tech/Sales#: Monday-Saturday 9AM-7PM MST Proudly Serving the Turbo-Mopar Community since 1997 TU is a performance, not marketing company. We provide accurate performance data on all our performance products. Fabricating data to make us appear better is just not our style. Do the research before you buy. ROCK BOTTOM PRICES WITHOUT THE HIDDEN HANDLING FEES.... -----HOME OF THE 9 SECOND FWD T-M CLUTCH-----

  3. #23
    TIIFIIIWII Turbo Mopar Staff DodgeZ's Avatar
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    What a very bad situation. You may want the CC company to handle the mediation for this dispute. Best of luck my friend.
    2022 Viper runs 9s

  4. #24
    turbo addict Chris W's Avatar
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    BTW- This customer decided against purchasing a $40. oil supply line from us for either turbo so we are not obligated to provide warranty assistance. This could be the reason his first turbo failed. It would also be the common link between both turbochargers if the second one is damaged.

    Chris-TU
    Chris Wright www.TurbosUnleashed.com Chris@TurbosUnleashed.com 602-76-BOOST Tech/Sales#: Monday-Saturday 9AM-7PM MST Proudly Serving the Turbo-Mopar Community since 1997 TU is a performance, not marketing company. We provide accurate performance data on all our performance products. Fabricating data to make us appear better is just not our style. Do the research before you buy. ROCK BOTTOM PRICES WITHOUT THE HIDDEN HANDLING FEES.... -----HOME OF THE 9 SECOND FWD T-M CLUTCH-----

  5. #25
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    This sounds an awful lot like someone screwed up and doesn't want to pay for their mistakes, and so is "leveraging" the CC company to get something for nothing...

    However, it would be fraud to deny the whole order over a line item within that order (the housing work). This is the kind of thing that would get me mad enough to loose money suing his azz just on principle!

    Also, it is commonly understood that when something is rebuilt, by definition, parts will be replaced or repaired in the process, so he has no realistic expectation that he would get the same parts back anyway. So long as equivalent parts or repairs to make the parts equivalent are used and the unit performs within specifications when the work was finished, that is, before it went into the box to go back to him, he doesn't have a leg to stand on! Had esthetics, been an issue, say a cast comp housing had replaced a polished one, one could argue that, but this is clearly not the case here.

    You have been acting in good faith, this guy does not appear to be, so the CC company should go your way, but then, having been through similar stuff, they rarely do the right thing... Still, I would contact the issuing bank and apprise them of the situation.

    I really don't see where this guy feels like he has been "injured" (to use a legal term), he got what he asked for, a repaired, properly functioning turbo... what difference does it make if the parts aren't all OE? Though I suspect you may be on to something, it would be easy to believe this guy swapped them out and killed this one due to the same underlying problem but can't take responsibility for his own cheapness being the cause...

    You might even be tempted to advise this guy that his threat amounts to extortion! "Do X or else"...

    Best of luck Chris, gotta love being your own boss, right?...

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
    - Edmund Burke

  6. #26
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    Sounds to me like you have attempted to go above and beyond for your customer, sucks they are playing games. Reversing charges for the entire order over a dispute like that is ridiculous. Best of luck with the CC company!
    1991 Chrysler Lebaron GTC convertible - a568 - 15psi FWD Stage 3, FMIC, TII Garrett turbo, two of the big ones

  7. #27
    Banned Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    i thought the oil line was only required for the 2 year extended deal??

  8. #28
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggy View Post
    i thought the oil line was only required for the 2 year extended deal??
    Originally the rebuild was in 07, WAY out of warranty regardless... I'm not sure what the deal would be on this one... Assuming he blew it up too.

    Personally, I'm a bit surprised warranties are offered at all! From a retailer's standpoint, there is no way to be sure the part you just reconditioned and tested to be good will not see conditions guaranteed to kill it! Hoses and filters only help the odds a bit, but no oil is still going to equal a dead turbo...

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
    - Edmund Burke

  9. #29
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    where does he live. id send a brute squad headed up by andre the giant.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  10. #30
    turbo addict Chris W's Avatar
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    where does he live. id send a brute squad headed up by andre the giant.
    Canada

    ---------- Post added at 03:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggy View Post
    i thought the oil line was only required for the 2 year extended deal??
    Oil line is required for validating Warranty. No oil line= No Warranty.

    Chris-TU

    ---------- Post added at 03:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dwh4784 View Post
    Sounds to me like you have attempted to go above and beyond for your customer, sucks they are playing games. Reversing charges for the entire order over a dispute like that is ridiculous. Best of luck with the CC company!
    Not sure how much of the order he is disputing since we have not heard back from our merchant company yet.

    His email to us:

    "Don't worry Chris, I will find out beyond a shadow of a doubt. But I still need a turbo. Send me a new one and when I get it if it works I will send back the one I have now at your expense and then I'll pay.

    THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY THAT THOSE TWO TURBINE HOUSING ARE THE SAME. Joe"


    Chris-TU
    Chris Wright www.TurbosUnleashed.com Chris@TurbosUnleashed.com 602-76-BOOST Tech/Sales#: Monday-Saturday 9AM-7PM MST Proudly Serving the Turbo-Mopar Community since 1997 TU is a performance, not marketing company. We provide accurate performance data on all our performance products. Fabricating data to make us appear better is just not our style. Do the research before you buy. ROCK BOTTOM PRICES WITHOUT THE HIDDEN HANDLING FEES.... -----HOME OF THE 9 SECOND FWD T-M CLUTCH-----

  11. #31
    turbo addict
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    What a dick. Send him a brick in a box with COD required.

  12. #32
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mopar318 View Post
    What a dick. Send him a brick in a box with COD required.
    Via UPS with brokerage fees.


    All kidding aside, I would look into some type of arbitration/mediation.

  13. #33
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    Yeah sounds like he is a cheapskate trying to hose you?
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

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  14. #34
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mopar318 View Post
    What a dick. Send him a brick in a box with COD required.
    lol, that was a good laugh

  15. #35
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris W View Post
    Canada

    ---------- Post added at 03:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------



    Oil line is required for validating Warranty. No oil line= No Warranty.

    Chris-TU

    ---------- Post added at 03:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:22 PM ----------



    Not sure how much of the order he is disputing since we have not heard back from our merchant company yet.

    His email to us:

    "Don't worry Chris, I will find out beyond a shadow of a doubt. But I still need a turbo. Send me a new one and when I get it if it works I will send back the one I have now at your expense and then I'll pay.

    THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY THAT THOSE TWO TURBINE HOUSING ARE THE SAME. Joe"


    Chris-TU
    Ahhh, Joe from Canada..... I heard about that guy...

    All jokes aside, I went to look at my .63 exhaust housing and the star behind the T is a little tough to see in certain lights, but that doesn't change that I feel Chris has done a good service at a good price.

  16. #36
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    Just to clarify, the guy bought a turbo setup from you for 1200 bucks, did not pay the extra 40 for the new oil line and warranty, it went bad and you fixed it... for free? For $50?

    Or did he send a turbo to you to modify and the mods and parts cost 1200, and he is bitching because it's a different housing (he thinks)?

    Either way it seems like he is being a dick.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  17. #37
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    From my understanding, it was a 60 trim (not super 60) with a .63 housing and stock wheel originally built by Chris 4 years ago, guy never purchase an oil line then either so no warranty anyway. It blew up 4 years later, turbine wheel snapped and damaged turbine housing badly. .63 housing had to be shimmed and machined for stage 2 exhaust wheel, Chris recommended a larger compressor with the stage 2 so a 46 trim T04E was installed in the stock T3 housing. The $50 was added to the bill on top of the other work and parts he ordered, and he thinks Chris swapped housings and his didn't really need to have this shim installed on his housing so therefore Chris ripped him off $50 for work that he thinks wasn't done to his housing.

  18. #38
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    he should take it apart then and look for shim.....

    brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  19. #39
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    Quote Originally Posted by moparzrule View Post
    From my understanding, it was a 60 trim (not super 60) with a .63 housing and stock wheel originally built by Chris 4 years ago, guy never purchase an oil line then either so no warranty anyway. It blew up 4 years later, turbine wheel snapped and damaged turbine housing badly. .63 housing had to be shimmed and machined for stage 2 exhaust wheel, Chris recommended a larger compressor with the stage 2 so a 46 trim T04E was installed in the stock T3 housing. The $50 was added to the bill on top of the other work and parts he ordered, and he thinks Chris swapped housings and his didn't really need to have this shim installed on his housing so therefore Chris ripped him off $50 for work that he thinks wasn't done to his housing.
    If I was Chris, I'd give him his 50 bucks back and tell him to lose my number
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  20. #40
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: You be the judge: Need some input from Turbonetics experts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    he should take it apart then and look for shim.....

    brian
    Thats what I said too, but the point is this guy thinks Chris changed housings on him to get rid of a housing that needed the shim and charged him for it. Somehow he thinks that his housing didn't need this shim and chris screwed him over.

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