I'm having trouble with my Ostrich, but it might be me

[A.J.]

I've been searching for the answer for over a week and can't find it so I'm going to break down and post.

Here's the problem: '89 SMEC using the 139 mini-van cal. Using D-Cal to tune, when I put the cal on the Ostrich it runs fine at idle and up to about 5 lbs of boost. After 5 p.s.i. it starts cutting out, popping in the exhaust, sometimes stalls, goes to about 10:1 afr after letting off the gas, and sometimes turns the cooling fan on. Sometimes I put the cal on it and it works fine. If I make an adjustment and update the Ostrich it will start acting up. I updated the Tune-pro software, no luck.

I've been working on a 3 bar cal for my van to get it into the 15's. I thought it was that I was missing a line while scaling but it does this on a 2 bar cal too. I found this out adjusting the fan schedule for the summer.

I tried another Ostrich but it did the same thing. I tried my Ostrich on my Dad's '85 T&C wagon with an '88 SMEC and it worked fine. Burning the cals to chips and using the Moates remote chip extender and zif socket works okay. I've tried different ribbon cables and USB cables. Every now and again I can get the cal to take to the Ostrich but it's rare. I've tried fresh off the chip cals and it still cuts out.

I want this working when I go to the track this Saturday so I can tune if need be. I can bring my chip burner but I bought the Ostrich for the convenience. I ran a USB cable through the firewall so I can tune from inside the van. Make a run, tune, make a run, tune. Help please.

A.J.

[bakes]

Why are you not using Mptuner as the latest template are made only for mptuner in mind decal might be screwing them up.

[A.J.]

Why are you not using Mptuner as the latest template are made only for mptuner in mind decal might be screwing them up.

I'm more familiar with D-Cal. I haven't had enough time to learn my way around MPtuner. I don't think D-Cal is the problem. I took the factory 139 chip, read it and put it directly onto the Ostrich and I had the same problem. What "latest template" are you referring to? I'm using the factory cal off the chip with the tbl file from the D-Cal library.

I'm thinking there is a setting or something I'm missing on the EmUtility screen or someplace else.

A.J.

[A.J.]

I found the problem. It was the ribbon cable from the SMEC to the Ostrich. I just thought I'd post what I found because it might help someone else with the same problem.

A.J.

[turbovanman²]

What was wrong with the cable?

[A.J.]

It must have a bad wire in the ribbon cable. I haven't ohm'd it out yet. I'm guessing the chip extender and the Ostrich use different wires in the ribbon. The chip/chip extender worked fine (17 lbs of boost and 15.35 seconds). But I plug the Ostrich in with the same cal and over 5 lbs of boost it would buck, fart, hiccup, and sometimes die.

Things I tried/did to narrow it down:
>Instead of plugging the Ostrich and ribbon cable into zif socket, I discovered the Ostrich and chip extender use the same plug. So I just plugged the ribbon cable that came with my chip extender into the Ostrich. Result=ran like crap.
>Tried a known working Ostrich. Result=ran like crap.
>Tried different USB cables. Result=ran like crap.
>Downloaded TunerPro update. Result=ran like crap.
>Tried a cal pulled directly off a chip, unmodified and put on the Ostrich. Result=ran like crap.
>Socketed a new SMEC. Result=ran like crap.
>Tried the Ostrich on my Dad's socketed '88 SMEC. Result=Worked fine.

So I took the ribbon cable out of my SMEC and replaced it with the one that came with the Ostrich and it worked fine. I then plugged the ribbon cable into the chip extender and it worked fine.

A.J.

[turbovanman²]

Interesting.

[Aries_Turbo]

frank had a bad cable that came with his chip extender. it made wierd things happen.

swapped it out with the longer cable that he bought with the unit and all was well.

i guess those poke through ends arent always foolproof?

brian

[x.Gen]

when I picked up my Ostrich, I got it @ xenocron (whole story is in my thread from early last year). Chris owns the shop, and they are moates' distributor. I was lucky to sit with him for a good hour going thru everything; he made it a serious point to explain how important a clean connection from Ostrich to LM (/ecu) is...strongly recommended using the machine pin socket that it comes with between ribbon and socket on board, to both protect the ribbon cable terminal pins and provide a strong connection. also told me ZIF's tend to tweak the ribbon cable terminal pins. this is probably the second or third thread I've seen on the subject since, and I'm starting to see why. maybe someone can update the knowledge center article to help the next guy out.

[A.J.]

I ohmed out the ribbon cable today. There was continuity through all the wires. I tried to wiggle it while hooked up to the ohm meter but it was hard to hold the test leads and wiggle at the same time. There wasn't anything obviously wrong.

I have a machined pin socket in my SMEC. I also bypassed the zif by directly plugging the ribbon cable for the chip extender right into the Ostrich and had the same problem.

I was thinking, maybe the ribbon cable can't handle the heat under the hood. Usually those ribbon cables are in home computers not in 200* plus environments. I was going to get some 20 or 22 gauge wire and make my own ribbon cable with automotive grade wire. I already took my old ribbon cable apart for the ends, but not before drawing myself a schematic.

A.J.

[turbovanman²]

Funny, I never have issues with the cable, just the damn Ostrich, lol.

[risen]

I ohmed out the ribbon cable today. There was continuity through all the wires. I tried to wiggle it while hooked up to the ohm meter but it was hard to hold the test leads and wiggle at the same time. There wasn't anything obviously wrong.

I have a machined pin socket in my SMEC. I also bypassed the zif by directly plugging the ribbon cable for the chip extender right into the Ostrich and had the same problem.

I was thinking, maybe the ribbon cable can't handle the heat under the hood. Usually those ribbon cables are in home computers not in 200* plus environments. I was going to get some 20 or 22 gauge wire and make my own ribbon cable with automotive grade wire. I already took my old ribbon cable apart for the ends, but not before drawing myself a schematic.

A.J.

I'd suggest you get someone with a eeprom reader and have them read the ostrich like you would a chip. That way you can read the bin from the ostrich through the eeprom reader via the ribbon cable and connector and compare it. If the rom compares OK, your ostrich and cable are fine and it's time to take a hard look at the SMEC and it's socket or the offset or other burning options.

[A.J.]

I'd suggest you get someone with a eeprom reader and have them read the ostrich like you would a chip. That way you can read the bin from the ostrich through the eeprom reader via the ribbon cable and connector and compare it. If the rom compares OK, your ostrich and cable are fine and it's time to take a hard look at the SMEC and it's socket or the offset or other burning options.

I have one and did that. I found on Moates website in the forums section on what to read the Ostrich as what device/chip number. I didn't go through a couple hundred lines of code, only the first couple of lines. They said in that thread that if the first couple of lines match you should be okay.

I tried a different socketed SMEC and the problem was still there. As far as different burning or offset options, with the Ostrich you don't have those options. With a 32K size file, if you put anything in the "file start address" other than "0X0000" it won't write. Burning the chip, ya, there is a better chance of screwing that up. But the chip was fine. I was having problems with the Ostrich only.

I'm not going to NOT condemn the ribbon cable because I couldn't find an open with my ohm meter. Like I said it was hard to bend the cable while holding the test leads in place. After replacing the ribbon cable the problem went away. As far as I'm concerned the problem is fixed. I drove over a hundred miles yesterday, to the race track and back without a hiccup. Before I couldn't drive 30 miles to my parents place without it acting up.

A.J.

[risen]

I have one and did that. I found on Moates website in the forums section on what to read the Ostrich as what device/chip number. I didn't go through a couple hundred lines of code, only the first couple of lines. They said in that thread that if the first couple of lines match you should be okay.

I tried a different socketed SMEC and the problem was still there. As far as different burning or offset options, with the Ostrich you don't have those options. With a 32K size file, if you put anything in the "file start address" other than "0X0000" it won't write. Burning the chip, ya, there is a better chance of screwing that up. But the chip was fine. I was having problems with the Ostrich only.

I'm not going to NOT condemn the ribbon cable because I couldn't find an open with my ohm meter. Like I said it was hard to bend the cable while holding the test leads in place. After replacing the ribbon cable the problem went away. As far as I'm concerned the problem is fixed. I drove over a hundred miles yesterday, to the race track and back without a hiccup. Before I couldn't drive 30 miles to my parents place without it acting up.

A.J.

Well, since it's working OK none of what follows really matters, but it's probably good to discuss it here for people who have troubles in the future.

IDK if I buy that first couple of lines thing, I would want the whole bin to compare properly before I called it OK. There's a pretty good chance that your car is going to run like crap if the bin doesn't match the original exactly, every time it's read. There really aren't any 'optional' parts of the calibration. You can get a program like windiff to do the heavy lifting of comparing the binary files if you only read the last 32kb off the ostrich.

When I said 'burning' I meant 'writing bin file to ostrich', I should have been more clear. It's been a while since I worked with an ostrich but I I'm pretty sure you need an offset for any of our cals on the the ostrich. This is because the ostrich emulates in either 1 4 mbit bank or 8 512kbit banks. The 512kbit size means the banks are 64kb each, not 32kb and the bin for a smec needs to be started at 0x8000, not 0x0000. It's not the 'file start address' that I'm referring to as that's the offset into the *file* you want to load onto the ostrich, which would be wrong. You want to load the whole 32kb file at a emulation address of 0x8000.

[A.J.]

IDK if I buy that first couple of lines thing, I would want the whole bin to compare properly before I called it OK. There's a pretty good chance that your car is going to run like crap if the bin doesn't match the original exactly, every time it's read. There really aren't any 'optional' parts of the calibration. You can get a program like windiff to do the heavy lifting of comparing the binary files if you only read the last 32kb off the ostrich.

I agree all it would take is one line of data to mess things up. What I was quoting was a Moates tech stating "generally" if the first couple of line are correct, it's writing to the Ostrich properly.

When I said 'burning' I meant 'writing bin file to ostrich', I should have been more clear. It's been a while since I worked with an ostrich but I I'm pretty sure you need an offset for any of our cals on the the ostrich. This is because the ostrich emulates in either 1 4 mbit bank or 8 512kbit banks. The 512kbit size means the banks are 64kb each, not 32kb and the bin for a smec needs to be started at 0x8000, not 0x0000. It's not the 'file start address' that I'm referring to as that's the offset into the *file* you want to load onto the ostrich, which would be wrong. You want to load the whole 32kb file at a emulation address of 0x8000.

I tried different offsets thinking that since I have to do it with my chips, I should have to do it with the Ostrich too. I tried 0X4000 and 0X8000 and it wouldn't write. According to the Moates website, the Ostrich will emulate whatever size cal you put on it up to 512kbit /64k byte. If it's larger you tell the Ostrich so and it makes the needed adjustment.

Taken from http://support.moates.net/2010/06/22...lator-control/

"Write from file to emulator = updates the RAM on your emulator with the contents of a file on your computer. Must specify a filename and if you want to use large RAM support (required for files > 512kbit / 64k byte). File size and start address will be automatically selected for you and will be correct in most cases where your file is the same size as the chip you are trying to emulate. (i.e. 32k byte file for 27C256 chip)"

A.J.

[risen]

I tried different offsets thinking that since I have to do it with my chips, I should have to do it with the Ostrich too. I tried 0X4000 and 0X8000 and it wouldn't write. According to the Moates website, the Ostrich will emulate whatever size cal you put on it up to 512kbit /64k byte. If it's larger you tell the Ostrich so and it makes the needed adjustment.

Taken from http://support.moates.net/2010/06/22...lator-control/

"Write from file to emulator = updates the RAM on your emulator with the contents of a file on your computer. Must specify a filename and if you want to use large RAM support (required for files > 512kbit / 64k byte). File size and start address will be automatically selected for you and will be correct in most cases where your file is the same size as the chip you are trying to emulate. (i.e. 32k byte file for 27C256 chip)"

A.J.

That's why you don't have to specify it. Emutility automatically calculates it and starts writing at the correct emulation offset. I spent a few weeks writing some software to load bins on Ostrich from Linux/OSX, so I know our cals need to be started at an offset in the ostrich's emulation space. But, I didn't realize that emutility did the calculations for you since I only used it once for verification of the connection to the ostrich.

Putting anything into the file start address other than 0x0000 when using a bin file as produced by mptuner or dcal will always leave you with a inoperable cal on the ostrich, so no one should waste their time trying it. There are cases where it's useful, but if anyone is having a hard time understanding why it will always fail to give you a good cal on the ostrich, just don't use it.

[A.J.]

It started crapping out again. It happened a coupe of days ago. I got another ribbon cable so I'm going to put the Ostrich in my Dad's '85 T&C with an '88 SMEC with a stock cal and see if it happens with his. I also know a guy with a turbo Volvo that uses an Ostrich. I'm going to give him mine to run. With him using a totally different set up and using a different program, it might reveal something. I'll post up any findings.

A.J.

[bakes]

Are you running any Hi voltage / big current running around your ribbon cable?????????

[A.J.]

The ribbon cable is close to the battery but it's no closer than the chip and chip extender and they work fine. Actually, when the Ostrich is hooked up, the ribbon cable is further away because the cable is pulled tighter away from the battery.

The chip.






When I have the Ostrich hooked up.






A.J.

[bakes]

See you have a hi current + cable crossing it rap that ribbon in tin foil and ground the foil. it does take much to screw the chip signals up.

Better yet get that chip /ostrich away from the power center!!!!