Planning for the next project... how hard to put the Neon 5-sp in a Daytona?

[ShelGame]

OK, so I'm planning for my next project. I've been wanting to do a 2.4 swap for a while and I think I have the right car coming my way in June. I would prefer to keep the starter up front in the stock 2.4 location. So, a 2.0/2.4 trans is the way I'm planning to go. My choices are, A413, A604, and the Neon 5-sp (whatever it's designation, t850?). I'd prefer the 5-speed for fuel economy reasons. So, what's the biggest issue with installing the Neon 5-sp in a Daytona with a 2.4? What do you use for the drivers side mount?

EDIT: So, it appears that the PT's Getrag might also be a candidate. How do the mounts work for that one? And, I guess the 5-sp from the Neon is the T-350 (T-850 is a 6-speed?).

What did the Avenger/Eclipse/Talon use for a trans?

[135sohc]

Will the T850 fit into the K based engine bay ? Everywhere I have read about it its always noted as being a physically massive unit compared to our old school NP units.

[ShelGame]

Will the T850 fit into the K based engine bay ? Everywhere I have read about it its always noted as being a physically massive unit compared to our old school NP units.

Yeah, I meant T-350. The T-850 is the SRT-4 trans I think...

[bakes]

Jt needs to chime in here and turboshad as they have done most of the foot work here.

[Mopar318]

Considering that the T350 is much weaker than the Getrag series transmissions, I would stay with the old trans. Is starter placement the only issue?

[ShelGame]

Yeah, I'm leaning toward the 288 from the PT Cruisers. I want to keep things as factory as possible. It's not that I don't want to do custom parts, but I'm going to drive this everyday and want to be able to go buy spare parts if I have to (without having to modify anything to get it to fit). I dunno, it's just a thing in my head right now that I want to use a trans that matches the engine completely.

And, yes, I really hate the starter on the back of the engine.

Another possibility is to use the A604. I've been wanting to learn how to hack the trans controller anyway. Plus, the challenge of integrating the trans controller and harness into a T1 SBEC engine bay sounds interesting to me (the car is a 90 Daytona). I could use the harness from a V6/A604 to steal the trans circuits from; turn on the CCD bus in the SBEC and see what happens. But, I still think the 5-sp would be more fuel efficient...

[contraption22]

If you're concerned about fuel economy, I would find a 3.55 FD trans from a 1st gen SOHC Neon (non ACR). They can take more of a beating than people give them credit for, and they really shift nicely for daily driving.

[ShelGame]

If you're concerned about fuel economy, I would find a 3.55 FD trans from a 1st gen SOHC Neon (non ACR). They can take more of a beating than people give them credit for, and they really shift nicely for daily driving.

That's not a bad idea. I'm not planning huge power anyway. Just somewhere north of 250hp, but probably still shy of 300. And, I doubt I will race it. So, no drag launches. The early Neon trans is probably easier to find, too.

[22mopar]

seems to be some confusion. I don't see any difference between a Getrag and the New venture T-350. infact I used the internals from a Getrag 282 out of a 1993 grand am in a neon t-350 housing to get the right gear ratio for a race car.

T850 is a limited slip diff in an SRT4. a T550 is the trans found in GM cars like Olds alero, grand am, etc.

We've been running neon's for quite some time and found the biggest problem is eating 3rd gear syncro's

[glhs0426]

From what I remember the 288 out of a PT GT uses different spline axles. It is a very tough transaxle. The reason the 288 was chosen for a PT GT was the physical size. The T850 would not fit the PT and the T350 could not make it (out of warranty).

If you use a T350 you might consider a PT version of the T350. Why? The PT weighs quite a bit (3100lbs) compared to the Neon which weighed in about 400lbs less (2600lbs). It was designated T355 due to a few internal upgrades such as the needle bearing on third gear and a few other small improvements to deal with the weight. It also has a slightly higher effective ratio in 5th compared to a 2.0L SOHC trans due to the higher OD ratio.

PT 3.94FD X .72OD = 2.83
SOHC 3.55FD X .81OD = 2.87

[22mopar]

The PT trans has the same gear ratio as the Neon DOHC trans both are 3.94:1 all the transmissions use the same splines (I put 1989 automatic omni axles into a neon trans when I changed the front spindles on my neon to use K-car (MUCH stronger). the hub spline on the neon is much smaller than everything else.

[contraption22]

the hub spline on the neon is much smaller than everything else.

But if you use 2nd Gen Neon axles, the hub splines are the same as TM's.

[22mopar]

I didn't know that. the problem with neon spindles is they are WEAK. the steering arm (for tie rod) is 1/2 the thickness of the k-car spindle. not good for racing.

[BadAssPerformance]

Jt needs to chime in here and turboshad as they have done most of the foot work here.

We are both running A568's tho...

The 2.4L to the old trans is fairly easy, regaardless of trans choice, mounts will need to be customized. I need to clean up my mounts a bit but was then going to either do a GB on them or talk to Johnny about making them...

[contraption22]

I didn't know that. the problem with neon spindles is they are WEAK. the steering arm (for tie rod) is 1/2 the thickness of the k-car spindle. not good for racing.

The 2nd gens are beefier.

[ShelGame]

The 2nd gens are beefier.

I don't think the whole spline thing is an issue. I'll be using '90 Daytona spindles. Daytona axles will work with any of the Neon trans', right? Same length, same inner spline, etc.?

[22mopar]

That I can't answer yet. I have a 2.4 in my neon with a Getrag 282 trans that I used the neon bellhousing and spider gears then used 89 omni axles and K-car spindles since the neon spindles stuck even in gen 2 they are not as beefy as the old stuff plus the bearing hold up a lot better in the old hubs over the neon hubs.

I'm going to be looking at doing a 2.4 SOHC motor in a sundance and use a 523 trans. w/3.77 diff.

[glhs0426]

One thing I forgot to mention was the 1st gen Neon/Stratus sedan stuff is cable clutch linkage. The talon, second gen Neon, and PT were hydraulic clutch release. You can swap the bellhousing side, but you need to setup the carrier bearing preload if you do the bellhousing swap.

[ShelGame]

One thing I forgot to mention was the 1st gen Neon/Stratus sedan stuff is cable clutch linkage. The talon, second gen Neon, and PT were hydraulic clutch release. You can swap the bellhousing side, but you need to setup the carrier bearing preload if you do the bellhousing swap.

That's good to know. I wasn't looking forward to converting the car to hydraulic clutch...

[Aries_Turbo]

get a neon 413 trans mount and a g body 413 mount. put them side by side and measure the difference in the bolt location that bolts it to the body. should be pretty close.

Heath (turbododgepirate) was in the process of putting a 2.4L and a t350 in a charger. i dont know if he did any measuring but he did have it hanging in there on the stock neon mount. i know the l body mounts are different but it didnt look that far off from stock.

brian