Beehive spring matching locks and retainers?

[turbovanman²]

But, my enigne is stock-ish. And, I don't rev the crap out of it. I'm still shifting at 5100rpm. Though, I suspect I could now go higher.

Then I don't see the point, your spending time and money to gain nothing IMHO.

I can't run more than 0.430 lift. They check it with a solid lifter in place of the lash adjuster....

I can get anything made you want!

[Force Fed Mopar]

But, my enigne is stock-ish. And, I don't rev the crap out of it. I'm still shifting at 5100rpm. Though, I suspect I could now go higher.

I shift my stock 2.5 at 5k too, doesn't pull much above that. 2.4 lifters do make a difference though. My next 2.2 build will get the beehives along w/ 2.4 lifters and will be a high-revving engine.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I'm already very impressd by the change from the PT lifters. People who say there's no advantage are just wrong.

I don't see these beehive springs making a huge further difference (I don't rev to the moon). But, I also don't see them being worse...

No probably won't make a huge difference in revability, your stock setup doesn't flow enough. But the one thing I noticed is that above 3500rpms the engine just sings so smooth. But I've never ran any other spring other than stock.

But, my enigne is stock-ish. And, I don't rev the crap out of it. I'm still shifting at 5100rpm. Though, I suspect I could now go higher.

You should do a test and tune to find out. Would be interesting.

Then I don't see the point, your spending time and money to gain nothing IMHO.

I think we need to let Shel-game answer that.

[ShelGame]

Then I don't see the point, your spending time and money to gain nothing IMHO.

I'm currently running some high pressure aftermarket springs that I think are overkill considering my rev range. If I can reduce the spring pressure, it will reduce the power required to turn the cam. Every little HP matters.

[ShelGame]

No probably won't make a huge difference in revability, your stock setup doesn't flow enough. But the one thing I noticed is that above 3500rpms the engine just sings so smooth. But I've never ran any other spring other than stock.



You should do a test and tune to find out. Would be interesting.

I intend to.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I think simon was referring to the PT lifter being a waste of time. I was referring to that comment and hoping to get your thoughts on the matter.

[ShelGame]

I think simon was referring to the PT lifter being a waste of time. I was referring to that comment and hoping to get your thoughts on the matter.

Definitely NOT a waste of time on the PT's on even a stock engine.

Over the winter of 2010, I changed only the lifters and I insalled Eibach's all the way around the car. I picked up a solid tenth (comparing fastest to fastest), and the car is much more consistent now. I don't think the Eibach's did that.

Previously, I would occasionally rip off a fast pass - for no apparent reason. Usually in weather you wouldn't expect to go fast in. The car was really impossible to dial. I (now) attribute that to getting air into the stock lifters that, of course, couldn't get out. That issue is now gone.

I also originally did a shift point sweep at a test-n-tune (long agao) where I found I went fastest shifting at 5100rpm. I slowed down significanly shifting at even 5200rpm. I really need to re-do that sweep. I may have picked up RPM with the PT's too.

The fact that stock stuff doesn't flow over 5100rpm I beleive is at least partially due to the poor stock lifters. I don't expect that I gained 500rpm of rev range, but maybe a hundred or 2. I realize at this point, I'm just whittling away, but every little bit counts.

[bakes]

the pt lifter help alot , but it the cams duration the really limits the power band stock is focused on the 3000 range for drivablilty

[turbovanman²]

I think simon was referring to the PT lifter being a waste of time. I was referring to that comment and hoping to get your thoughts on the matter.

No, I was referring to the valve springs, you even quoted me on it. I agree 100% the PT's work and I've said that many times over the years.

He is here for advice, so to me, he's wasting time and money on the conicals, he said he's looking for power as he's running heavy springs and a stock cam, just revving over 5K, so run stock or S60 type valve springs. He can do what he wants, but advice doesn't hurt.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Sorry, sounded like you were talking about the PT's.

If you're going to run S60 springs you better run the 26995's instead. Similar open closed pressure but a lot less weight.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Definitely NOT a waste of time on the PT's on even a stock engine.

Over the winter of 2010, I changed only the lifters and I insalled Eibach's all the way around the car. I picked up a solid tenth (comparing fastest to fastest), and the car is much more consistent now. I don't think the Eibach's did that.

Previously, I would occasionally rip off a fast pass - for no apparent reason. Usually in weather you wouldn't expect to go fast in. The car was really impossible to dial. I (now) attribute that to getting air into the stock lifters that, of course, couldn't get out. That issue is now gone.

I also originally did a shift point sweep at a test-n-tune (long agao) where I found I went fastest shifting at 5100rpm. I slowed down significanly shifting at even 5200rpm. I really need to re-do that sweep. I may have picked up RPM with the PT's too.

The fact that stock stuff doesn't flow over 5100rpm I beleive is at least partially due to the poor stock lifters. I don't expect that I gained 500rpm of rev range, but maybe a hundred or 2. I realize at this point, I'm just whittling away, but every little bit counts.

I doubt it, I had PT lifters and a F3 cam in mine, and it didn't pull past 5k either. I swapped the F3 out for a stock cam last week, and the car feels the same in boost. I think the stock head is the limiting factor, not the cam or the springs.

[ShelGame]

I doubt it, I had PT lifters and a F3 cam in mine, and it didn't pull past 5k either. I swapped the F3 out for a stock cam last week, and the car feels the same in boost. I think the stock head is the limiting factor, not the cam or the springs.

It wouldn't surprise me either, but I haven't done the test myself yet. If all I gain from the beehives is a little less valvetrain friction, so be it.

[shadow92]

What other beehive style springs can we use other than the 3.3l or the comps ones? Can we use ls2 springs?

[ShelGame]

This is interesting...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOYOTA-20R-2...item460544c36c

[turbovanman²]

This is interesting...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOYOTA-20R-2...item460544c36c

Wonder what the keeper angle is? Closed pressure is a bit weak.

[ShelGame]

Wonder what the keeper angle is? Closed pressure is a bit weak.

7deg. Look up Sealed Power VK210. I have a bunch of them coming from Rock Auto, though everyone else shows them as out-of-stock. We'll see if Rock Auto actually ships them or sends me a refund like the eBay seller I just tried.

Northern Auto Parts shows them 'in-stock' too.

This could be a good source, too - http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/product21.html

[ShelGame]

Got the VK210 keepers in. Bad news, not a perfect fit either. The stem dia is a match, as is the groove height. But, the ID of the groove is smaller than the minor diameter of the groove on the valve. So, they don't fit. Bummer. I suppose it might be possible grind the minor diameter of the valve enough to clear the VK210's. But, then, that's not exactly 'stock' valves is it?

Also, I totaly forgot I had these, but the Mopar +1mm exhaust valves use square groove keepers (the same as the intakes) instead of the 3-groove keepers.

[wallace]

Isn't there a titanium retainer out there that has the correct angle?

[ShelGame]

Isn't there a titanium retainer out there that has the correct angle?

All of the 'Super 7' retainers seem to be ~1.5" OD. Too big for the beehives.

EDIT: and it appears that only the 'Super 7' locks are 8 deg. The retainers are all still 7 deg...

But, that does bring up a question - If the 'Super 7' locks are 8* and are designed to be used with 7* retainers, does that mean it's OK afterall to use our stock 8* locks with the Comp 7* retainers? Hmm...

[ShelGame]

I wonder what OD/ID these are?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-4529217/

Apparently, the Jeep 4.0 and 2.5 also used 8mm valves with 8deg locks. Back to searching...