Anyone fast running air/water intercooler?

[Force Fed Mopar]

Sweet!

[8valves]

To the original poster, Todd, clear your PM's please. I tried to send you something.

AM

[Force Fed Mopar]

Bumping this due to recent discussion in another thread. There may be pics of mine in this thread already, but here's a few more.

[tryingbe]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...d)-in-AZ/page3

12.6 at 111mph

[puppet]

Just to bump an old thread. I know there was some talk about using A/C in the manifold a few years ago but when doing the sizing math it just wouldn't be practical. The system would need to be huge to satisfy the cooling requirements of the engine.

However, I noticed a guy marketing a product called "killer chiller". His approach is to tap into the cars A/C, route that to his evap coil which cools the water for the AW intercooler. I could see a dumbed down version that just puts an evap coil in the cooling water reservoir itself. Reservoir would have to be sized for the desired use ie. drag car needs to get down the track with enough recovery time between runs. Street use capacity may not be real critical.

Something like this might be worth the work.

[tryingbe]

However, I noticed a guy marketing a product called "killer chiller". His approach is to tap into the cars A/C, route that to his evap coil which cools the water for the AW intercooler. I could see a dumbed down version that just puts an evap coil in the cooling water reservoir itself. Reservoir would have to be sized for the desired use ie. drag car needs to get down the track with enough recovery time between runs. Street use capacity may not be real critical.

Something like this might be worth the work.

AJ has that in his minivan.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Pretty Sure AJ got the idea from RGL10 running it on his Omni.

[A.J.]

Just to bump an old thread. I know there was some talk about using A/C in the manifold a few years ago but when doing the sizing math it just wouldn't be practical. The system would need to be huge to satisfy the cooling requirements of the engine.

However, I noticed a guy marketing a product called "killer chiller". His approach is to tap into the cars A/C, route that to his evap coil which cools the water for the AW intercooler. I could see a dumbed down version that just puts an evap coil in the cooling water reservoir itself. Reservoir would have to be sized for the desired use ie. drag car needs to get down the track with enough recovery time between runs. Street use capacity may not be real critical.

Something like this might be worth the work.

I did this. I use a plate heat exchanger on the low side (suction line) of the AC system instead of submerging an evaporator coil in a tank.

It took me awhile but I finally found low/reasonably price heat exchangers. I don't think submerging an evaporator in a tank would net good results unless you can force the water through the evaporator coils other wise the water will just flow around the evaporator being the path of least resistance. Mine cools the water 10 degrees more than what the front mounted air to water heat exchanger cools it. I'm sure I could get it down lower with a larger heat exchanger. I do want to install a reserve tank to store chilled water in between the plate heat exchanger and the intercooler because I don't want to run my AC compressor while racing. I have the AC compressor cut under WOT but I don't want it kicking back on after I let off the throttle at 6000 RPM. I don't want to break the input shaft on the compressor engaging it at that high an RPM. I did notice my intercooler did not become heat soaked when I was hot lapping this past May when I raced by running the AC after I did my run. I had 5 minutes in between runs (literally I have it documented on my time slips) and by the time I lined back up my intake temps were at 80* instead of over 120* like the last time I raced without the AC chilled intercooler.

Pretty Sure AJ got the idea from RGL10 running it on his Omni.

That is correct. But I run an front mount heat exchanger and RGL10 does not. He relies solely on intake air and AC to cool his intercooler.

[puppet]

AJ some systems use a solenoid valve to bypass the heat exchanger. I can see not wanting to present the chilled water to ambient airflow. In your system is the returned water .. out of the A/W intercooler warmer than ambient? I'm curious about the temp rise of the chilled water in just that part of the circuit. Your recovery time seems really good. If you did add in another reservoir, you could ditch the heat exchanger.

[A.J.]

AJ some systems use a solenoid valve to bypass the heat exchanger. I can see not wanting to present the chilled water to ambient airflow. In your system is the returned water .. out of the A/W intercooler warmer than ambient? I'm curious about the temp rise of the chilled water in just that part of the circuit. Your recovery time seems really good. If you did add in another reservoir, you could ditch the heat exchanger.

Mine flows from the I.C. to the front mount heat exchanger, then to the AC cooled plate heat exchanger, then to the I.C. I have it run that way for the front mount heat exchanger take the majority of the heat load so I can run a smaller plate heat exchanger. I don't want to bypass my front mount heat exchanger because I don't run m AC all the time. My intake air temp is about 20* above ambient at cruise, and 40*-50* above ambient in boost. With the AC on it's 10* cooler than that.

[puppet]

Figured you'd run the circuit that way. I was just wondering what the outlet temp of the chilled water was after it left the IC. After posting that question, I realized that you probably never looked at that.

Seen some install pics with refrigerant solenoids to get cabin or IC or both.
Thanks for sharing your set-up AJ.

[A.J.]

Q

Figured you'd run the circuit that way. I was just wondering what the outlet temp of the chilled water was after it left the IC. After posting that question, I realized that you probably never looked at that.

Seen some install pics with refrigerant solenoids to get cabin or IC or both.
Thanks for sharing your set-up AJ.

I'm only interested in intake air temps. If I had unlimited funds and time I'd be interested in the after intercooler water temps. So if anybody wants to send me a check for R&D...........😛

I'm more than happy to share what I've done. Others here have also shared their experience and knowledge and I doubt I would be where I'm at if others didn't share.

[johnl]

SO cool! As usual good stuff from AJ. Now you have me scheming on a copy cat set up. 10* is substantial. AJ, I'm ignorant of those plate evaporators, so I looked em up. Seems like one could find a spot for a bigger one with more internal volume for greater AC coolant expansion ratio. Maybe 5x12x6? Found this one, for example, maybe like yours - 20 plates, 97,000 BTUs at 10GPM; they mention same unit, thicker up to 40 plates.

http://www.amazon.com/Brazed-Plate-E...ription-iframe


And, I like the idea too, as Puppet described, of a solenoid valve to switch the AC coolant between that compact AC engine compartment AWIC evaporator plate and the OEM under dash AC evaporator.

[Force Fed Mopar]

One of the things I'm gonna add to my setup when I revamp it is air temp probes before and after the intercooler, and possibly a water temp sensor for the system also. I'll switch to a mix of water and cooling additive also, rather than a water/antifreeze mix. Should help cool better without the added complication of using the AC system.

[ShadowFromHell]

What kind of cooling additive?

Anyone tried using a AC condenser as a heat exchanger? It's been talked about but I don't think I've seen anyone try it. Looks like everyone is using a frozen boost heat exchanger. For as cheap as their kit is I don't blame them.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Something like Redline Water Wetter or Royal Purple Purple Ice.

[A.J.]

SO cool! As usual good stuff from AJ. Now you have me scheming on a copy cat set up. 10* is substantial. AJ, I'm ignorant of those plate evaporators, so I looked em up. Seems like one could find a spot for a bigger one with more internal volume for greater AC coolant expansion ratio. Maybe 5x12x6? Found this one, for example, maybe like yours - 20 plates, 97,000 BTUs at 10GPM; they mention same unit, thicker up to 40 plates.

http://www.amazon.com/Brazed-Plate-E...ription-iframe


And, I like the idea too, as Puppet described, of a solenoid valve to switch the AC coolant between that compact AC engine compartment AWIC evaporator plate and the OEM under dash AC evaporator.

I guessed at the size for my plate heat exchanger. Using mine as a guide, you can expect a 10* drop with my size. I'm guessing a larger plate heat exchanger with net you a larger temp drop.

I searched high and low and the cheapest I could find them are here: http://www.dudadiesel.com/heat_exchangers.php

One of the things I'm gonna add to my setup when I revamp it is air temp probes before and after the intercooler, and possibly a water temp sensor for the system also. I'll switch to a mix of water and cooling additive also, rather than a water/antifreeze mix. Should help cool better without the added complication of usaing the AC system.

I have the before and after IC duel temp gauge in my van and love it: http://www.frozenboost.com/prosport-...uge-p-987.html

My only complaint was the cheesy wing on the sensors. They broke and I had to re-engineer them and now they're bullet-proof. I have a write up somewhere. Maybe my build page.

What kind of cooling additive?

Anyone tried using a AC condenser as a heat exchanger? It's been talked about but I don't think I've seen anyone try it. Looks like everyone is using a frozen boost heat exchanger. For as cheap as their kit is I don't blame them.

I truly believe an ac condenser is going to be too restrictive. My intercooler water plumbing is 3/4" hose with 1/2" NPT fittings. Most AC condensers are less than 1/2" I.D.

[ShadowFromHell]

When I first picked up a A/W IC a condenser was my plan. But after reading and reading I think it would be too restrictive too. The real high HP turbo V8 guys run 1" lines. My current plan is to go JY hunting for the widest single core radiator I can find that will fit in the front of the car and cut it down height wise and build new endtanks. Maybe even a dual pass.

[A.J.]

When I first picked up a A/W IC a condenser was my plan. But after reading and reading I think it would be too restrictive too. The real high HP turbo V8 guys run 1" lines. My current plan is to go JY hunting for the widest single core radiator I can find that will fit in the front of the car and cut it down height wise and build new endtanks. Maybe even a dual pass.

That seems like a lot of work when there is already something made like that: http://www.frozenboost.com/water-to-...or-p-1002.html. I think anything bigger than that might be overkill unless you're doing some racing up the side of a mountain. This is the one I run http://www.frozenboost.com/water-to-...or-p-1062.html and think it's more than adequate.

[Force Fed Mopar]

That seems like a lot of work when there is already something made like that: http://www.frozenboost.com/water-to-...or-p-1002.html...

I put one of those in the Turbo Z CS I put together for another member here, it barely fit. If I'd have been willing to cut the latch brace out it would have fit easier, but I would use a smaller/shorter exchanger if I had a choice. Although, each body has different space in the nose, that large one may fit better in a Lebaron or Shadow.

My car has this one ... http://www.frozenboost.com/water-to-...or-p-1063.html ... and seems to be adequate. Even on mountain runs the intercooler barely gets warm, and that's with 1 7" fan in the middle and no reservoir. If I added 2 more fans to cover the exchanger and added a reservoir I feel it'd never heat soak.