Gear Controlled Boost

[Aries_Turbo]

if you are good with microswitches, you can make a gear based boost controller with all old school DIY stuff that we've been using for years.

or you can use a frequency to voltage converter to take the signal from the speed sensor and convert it to a voltage signal, and then use 4 op amps set up as comparators (voltage based switch) to determine what gear you are in.

Brian

[bakes]

You can use a Cal with a ATX templete and and set the allowed boost for automatics from speed.
Just know each shift point from speed and reset the slope.

edit : i forgot you not running factory ECM

[cordes]

You can use a Cal with a ATX templete and and set the allowed boost for automatics from speed.
Just know each shift point from speed and reset the slope.

edit : i forgot you not running factory ECM

That's all out the window when you lose traction though. With enough tuning it can be viable, but it's still not ideal.

[Reaper1]

Have you looked into these yet?

Yeah. Good electronic ones are EXPENSIVE! Some stand alone ECU's can do it too, but same $$$$ issue.

if you are good with microswitches, you can make a gear based boost controller with all old school DIY stuff that we've been using for years.

or you can use a frequency to voltage converter to take the signal from the speed sensor and convert it to a voltage signal, and then use 4 op amps set up as comparators (voltage based switch) to determine what gear you are in.

Brian

Brian, that's exactly what I did. I designed a 3-stage boost controller that is gear based. The driver can also select manually to be in high boost all the time (such as if you are doing a burn out, just want to show off, or need that "go baby go") or low boost all the time (like an economy or valet mode). If something electrical goes wrong it defaults to low boost. High boost is only activated via a WOT switch or if manually selected, otherwise the maximum boost target at part throttle is the middle boost setting. It only uses two pnuematic solenoid valves (like the ones supplied with the AMS-500). High boost is based on the maximum that the wastegate can hold (like on Gus's ultilmate boost controller). Middle and low boost are adjutable via g-valves.

Of course this set-up can only work if the way that maximum boost is achieved is like the stock set-up. I'd have to revise the vacuum schematic in order to do it a different way.

I've only implemented a part of this design thus far. Part of the reason I never went farther is because I want an adjustable electronic solid state WOT switch. I know there are some out there, but I kind of want to design and built it myself. The other reasons are money, and not knowing exactly what switches I'm going to use, where I'm going to use them, or how I'm going to mount them.

One day I'll get it all sorted out!

[Aries_Turbo]

Part of the reason I never went farther is because I want an adjustable electronic solid state WOT switch.

you mean like the one i designed and posted up in this thread?

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...et.&highlight=

Brian

[Reeves]

if you are good with microswitches, you can make a gear based boost controller with all old school DIY stuff that we've been using for years.

or you can use a frequency to voltage converter to take the signal from the speed sensor and convert it to a voltage signal, and then use 4 op amps set up as comparators (voltage based switch) to determine what gear you are in.

Brian

Only problem with that is that it doesn't work with slip (tire spin). Now, if we take the rpm / mph that will tell us what gear we are in. Then we can have 4 separate outputs (1 2 3 4 gears) to control boost. Hmm...or can we use 2 solenoids to control 4 stages of boost. Need to sketch that out. "00" 1st gear low boost (would also work as fail safe). "01" solenoid 1 on 2nd gear boost set. "10" solenoid 2 on 3rd gear boost set. "11" both solenoids on 4th and 5th gear boost.
Oh yeah.....

That's all out the window when you lose traction though. With enough tuning it can be viable, but it's still not ideal.

Which is why Warren and I were thinking of making a rear wheel speed sensor. I have some proximity switches I was going to use as hall effect switches with a shutter wheel mounted on the rear hub/rotor.

Yeah. Good electronic ones are EXPENSIVE! Some stand alone ECU's can do it too, but same $$$$ issue.

No joke!

[Aries_Turbo]

Only problem with that is that it doesn't work with slip (tire spin). Now, if we take the rpm / mph that will tell us what gear we are in. Then we can have 4 separate outputs (1 2 3 4 gears) to control boost. Hmm...or can we use 2 solenoids to control 4 stages of boost. Need to sketch that out. "00" 1st gear low boost (would also work as fail safe). "01" solenoid 1 on 2nd gear boost set. "10" solenoid 2 on 3rd gear boost set. "11" both solenoids on 4th and 5th gear boost.
Oh yeah.....



Which is why Warren and I were thinking of making a rear wheel speed sensor. I have some proximity switches I was going to use as hall effect switches with a shutter wheel mounted on the rear hub/rotor.

microswitches on the shifter will work just fine regardless of wheelspin. it will tell you what gear you are in.

yeah i was thinking about using a rear wheel speed sensor. problem is with using RPM and speed to determine gear, most folks wont be able to do the programming required to do the gear determination. microswitches on the trans, anyone can do.

Brian

[Reeves]

This is the beginning of a thread to discuss gear controlled boost. A few of us started to discuss this in Carroll Roberts GLH-R/T thread and dirtied it up. I'm hoping mods can move those posts here to discuss.

[1966 dart wagon]

very intrested in this!

[Reaper1]

I brought my design with me for my gear based boost controller from storage. I'll try to get them digitized and maybe post them. I need to try and build Brian's electronic solid state WOT switch.

[BadAssPerformance]

This is the beginning of a thread to discuss gear controlled boost. A few of us started to discuss this in Carroll Roberts GLH-R/T thread and dirtied it up. I'm hoping mods can move those posts here to discuss.

I must have missed that part, havn't been on much. gimmie the post numbers and I'll move them

[Reeves]

I must have missed that part, havn't been on much. gimmie the post numbers and I'll move them

Looks like you already moved most of them

Here's what's left as of right now:
Post numbers 798, 799, 803, 813

[Aries_Turbo]

i moved most of them.

Brian

[Reeves]

microswitches on the shifter will work just fine regardless of wheelspin. it will tell you what gear you are in.

yeah i was thinking about using a rear wheel speed sensor. problem is with using RPM and speed to determine gear, most folks wont be able to do the programming required to do the gear determination. microswitches on the trans, anyone can do.

Brian

Prox on the rear wheel to do speed and then you can use speed controlled boost via LM or SMEC.

The other thing I started last season and gathered parts for and never finished was a prox to see the shifter in 1st gear. Then an adjustable time off delay relay so that boost doesn't immediately go high after shifting out of first. First gear, prox is on, low boost solenoid is on. Bang 2nd gear, the relay is still latched for X amount of time, before switching to high boost mode.

I think it would be pretty difficult to setup a shifter with 4 switches.....but I might just try to tackle it if we never come up with a good electronic way to do it. I probably would use mini Turck prox's though.....just don't like mechanical wear items like micro-switches and mechanical relays all that much. Not saying I wouldn't use them, but prefer prox's and solid state relays.


Apexi is the only boost controller I know of that takes RPM and MPH and 'learns' your gears, then does gear controlled boost the most proper way.

Rob and I were working on gear controlled boost via logic module (which is what I run), but there is no divide function in LM code.

[Vigo]

Which is why Warren and I were thinking of making a rear wheel speed sensor. I have some proximity switches I was going to use as hall effect switches with a shutter wheel mounted on the rear hub/rotor.

Didnt some spirit r/ts come with ABS?

I know for a fact the ac/ay bodies (dynasty, new yorker, imperial 89-93) could be had with abs, and they had the non-vented 10.5" rear disc setup.

So, if you happen to use the 10.5 rear discs already you should be able to snag something off one of the ABS ac/ay cars that will give you a rear wheel speed sensor.

[Aries_Turbo]

is it a hall effect or a VR sensor for the ABS stuff? hall effect, no problem. VR, gotta put together a conditioning circuit to make it nice square pulses.

as for prox sensors or microswitches, they can be installed on the trans end of things. thats where you get the most consistent and drastic movement.

you could even use security door switches for the shifter ranges. they are a magnet and a reed switch like the speed sensor. that way they'll be sealed from the elements.

Brian

[shackwrrr]

MPGmike is coming out with an electronic boost controller that uses the speed sensor to act as a traction control. There will be an adjustment for a rate of rise and any wheel spin will result in reduced boost.

[Reaper1]

Prox on the rear wheel to do speed and then you can use speed controlled boost via LM or SMEC.

The other thing I started last season and gathered parts for and never finished was a prox to see the shifter in 1st gear. Then an adjustable time off delay relay so that boost doesn't immediately go high after shifting out of first. First gear, prox is on, low boost solenoid is on. Bang 2nd gear, the relay is still latched for X amount of time, before switching to high boost mode.

I think it would be pretty difficult to setup a shifter with 4 switches.....but I might just try to tackle it if we never come up with a good electronic way to do it. I probably would use mini Turck prox's though.....just don't like mechanical wear items like micro-switches and mechanical relays all that much. Not saying I wouldn't use them, but prefer prox's and solid state relays.


Apexi is the only boost controller I know of that takes RPM and MPH and 'learns' your gears, then does gear controlled boost the most proper way.

Rob and I were working on gear controlled boost via logic module (which is what I run), but there is no divide function in LM code.

OK...brain fart time...what is a "Prox"?

Didnt some spirit r/ts come with ABS?

I know for a fact the ac/ay bodies (dynasty, new yorker, imperial 89-93) could be had with abs, and they had the non-vented 10.5" rear disc setup.

So, if you happen to use the 10.5 rear discs already you should be able to snag something off one of the ABS ac/ay cars that will give you a rear wheel speed sensor.

Spirit's, Daytona's, LeBaron's could all be had with ABS. You really only need the hub as that is what as the tone ring on it. The backing plates are differerent, but I think you could probably modify a non-ABS one fairly easily to hold the sensor.

is it a hall effect or a VR sensor for the ABS stuff? hall effect, no problem. VR, gotta put together a conditioning circuit to make it nice square pulses.

as for prox sensors or microswitches, they can be installed on the trans end of things. thats where you get the most consistent and drastic movement.

you could even use security door switches for the shifter ranges. they are a magnet and a reed switch like the speed sensor. that way they'll be sealed from the elements.

Brian

Those switches are kinda big as far as their physical size (looking at one right now in the house!). Brake switches would work, if you can find them small enough. I actually wanted to mount te switches on the shifter to keep them out of the engine compartment. Also, the shifter has the longer throw and more room to really work with, but I understand the issue with the consistancy of the movement. That is part of the reason I enver got around to building mine. I couldn't figure out a way to activate the switches that would be reliable.

[Vigo]

MPGmike is coming out with an electronic boost controller that uses the speed sensor to act as a traction control. There will be an adjustment for a rate of rise and any wheel spin will result in reduced boost.

The only hole i see in that is if you have the left wheel spinning, an open diff, and no other input besides the VSS, the system wouldnt see it.

[Aries_Turbo]

yeah i wish we had the neons speed sensor setup, driven from the diff carrier. it shows you the average speed of the front wheels.

if we did later front abs knuckles and rear abs stuff, we could make a controller taking an average speed of the front wheels, vs the average speed of the rear wheels for boost control.

with something that retards timing/controls boost, traction control is possible.

Brian