3.0 cals

[ShelGame]

I just posted the stock '90/91 3.0 cal (A465 binary) with a fairly complete table file and I also posted an updated '89 3.0 table file (A107 binary) in the repository. I've done a couple of these cals now and would be happy to give pointers to anyone wanting to roll their own.

MP Tuner source code and templates are coming. I won't say soon, though.

Unfortunately, I still don't see a simple way to build a turbo cal from the stock V6 code.

[Ondonti]

Well even ghetto tune setups could use an improved VE table. That was my biggest problem on a stock cal. I had to run rich down low to have safe fuel above 5000 rpms.
One step at a time.
I think one of the problems with the 3.0 is that most people building them are SBECII and the work involved in rewiring to older electronics might make megasquirt = $ and time spent.
There are people with the older stuff though!

[ShelGame]

Here's a question for you Brent - Does the stock 3.0 go lean or rich at high RPM? I've been told it goes lean, but that's from guys without a WB, so I don't know how they know for sure what's going on. Looking at the cals, it looks to me that it would go rich - the pumping efficiency table goes flat above 5500rpm. Usually, the mfg will make sure a cal goes rich at high rpm to reduce power and increase headgasket life (by reducing cylinder pressure).

Also, there's a big dip in the timing vs. rpm table from 3k or so up to 5k. I think it will be pretty easy to make a nicer NA cal for these, I just need a little direction since I don't own one myself.

[Aries_Turbo]

i think that dip in timing is because there is no knock sensor setup on the 3.0L stuff. take out timing to keep it alive when towing stuff with a caravan and running cheap gas.

with good gas and a good ear, it would be a nice bump in power to add that timing back in.

brian

[bakes]

Rob how much different would a 94 3.0l sbec II cal be to alter ? i only need it to be 2 bar.

[Aries_Turbo]

hey rob, most of the 3.0 stuff makes sense except for that goofy other peftbl. what is that for?

[turbovanman²]

Here's a question for you Brent - Does the stock 3.0 go lean or rich at high RPM? I've been told it goes lean, but that's from guys without a WB, so I don't know how they know for sure what's going on. Looking at the cals, it looks to me that it would go rich - the pumping efficiency table goes flat above 5500rpm. Usually, the mfg will make sure a cal goes rich at high rpm to reduce power and increase headgasket life (by reducing cylinder pressure).

Also, there's a big dip in the timing vs. rpm table from 3k or so up to 5k. I think it will be pretty easy to make a nicer NA cal for these, I just need a little direction since I don't own one myself.

No wideband but looking at the ox sensor, they go pig rich for me, not to mention the smell, ick.

[ShelGame]

Rob how much different would a 94 3.0l sbec II cal be to alter ? i only need it to be 2 bar.

2-bar would be extremely difficult, the '92+ cals are already tough due to the 3D. I'm going to say I don't think I'll ever have the time to convert a 3.0 cal to turbo...

---------- Post added at 10:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------

hey rob, most of the 3.0 stuff makes sense except for that goofy other peftbl. what is that for?

I beleive it's used at part throttle. It kind of makes sense to have a P/T peftbl, though the shape is very strange if you ask me...

---------- Post added at 10:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 PM ----------

No wideband but looking at the ox sensor, they go pig rich for me, not to mention the smell, ick.

I've had other people tell me about the 'lean' smell after running it at high RPM. That was my other clue - cats don't smell when they run lean, they smell when they're too rich. Plus, from what I can see in the cal, it is definitely setup to be rich above 5500 rpm...

[turbovanman²]

I've had other people tell me about the 'lean' smell after running it at high RPM. That was my other clue - cats don't smell when they run lean, they smell when they're too rich. Plus, from what I can see in the cal, it is definitely setup to be rich above 5500 rpm...

I think people are confused with rich and lean smell,

They stink of sulphur, which is rich, and you and I both know OEM's set it up rich on WOT, just stick behind any car up a hill, phew. Lean does smell too, but its a different smell of course, its rancid.

[Aries_Turbo]

I beleive it's used at part throttle. It kind of makes sense to have a P/T peftbl, though the shape is very strange if you ask me...

does the code indicate that is a total separate PFTBL with the same amount of authority or could it be a fine tuning deal that scales the main PEFTBL?

it looks so wonky that its hard to wrap my mind around how the mix could be so different with the throttle opened partway. i know that its going to make the air turbulent and therefore change how the plenum/divider/runners interact with airflow but it looks so wierd.

Brian

[ShelGame]

does the code indicate that is a total separate PFTBL with the same amount of authority or could it be a fine tuning deal that scales the main PEFTBL?

it looks so wonky that its hard to wrap my mind around how the mix could be so different with the throttle opened partway. i know that its going to make the air turbulent and therefore change how the plenum/divider/runners interact with airflow but it looks so wierd.

Brian

Nope, it's strictly a switch. I have not deciphered the flag it's checking yet, but I think it's the part throttle flag. If the flag is set, then the 2nd (odd looking) pump eff table is used (it's listed 1st below). Actually, this means that it's only used at idle. Which makes a little more sense.

B9D4 964d       LB9D4:  ldaa EngineRpm_HB    ; load a with memory contents
B9D6 ce81ed             ldx  #PEFTBL_PumpingEfficiency2    ; load index with value
B9D9 13b90103           brclr *BitFlagsB9, #$%00000001, LB9E0    ; branch if bit(s) clear
B9DD ce821c             ldx  #PEFTBL_PumpingEfficiency    ; load index with value
B9E0 bddb07     LB9E0:  jsr  Lookup4ByteTable    ; call subroutine
B9E3 d77f               stab Pulsewidth_Modifier_PumpEff    ; store b into memory

[Aries_Turbo]

so idle then, not part throttle?

Brian

[ShelGame]

Yeah, the 'main' peftbl is for P/T and WOT, with the 2nd peftbl for idle only. I need to confirm the purpose of the flag, but in the turbo cals, the 0 bit is the P/T flag, and bit 7 is the WOT flag. I can't see them changing the flag meaning (scan tools can read those flags) so my guess is it's an idle-only peftbl.

[Aries_Turbo]

it does make more sense to be a idle/no throttle table though it still looks a bit wierd.

Brian

[ShelGame]

it does make more sense to be a idle/no throttle table though it still looks a bit wierd.

Brian

It does, but if you consider that idle won't be set very high, you can see that it's really only controlling fuel in the 500-3k rpm range. After that, it ramps up to a very rich condition.

It's probably a very useful table for getting a 3.0 to idle right when you change cams or do some porting...

[Aries_Turbo]

i was thinking that myself.

[ShelGame]

You know, that's such a detailled peftbl, that it makes me wonder if they didn't get rid of the spark scatter for the 3.0? I'll have to go look...

[Kreel]

Nope, it's strictly a switch. I have not deciphered the flag it's checking yet, but I think it's the part throttle flag. If the flag is set, then the 2nd (odd looking) pump eff table is used (it's listed 1st below). Actually, this means that it's only used at idle. Which makes a little more sense.

B9D4 964d       LB9D4:  ldaa EngineRpm_HB    ; load a with memory contents
B9D6 ce81ed             ldx  #PEFTBL_PumpingEfficiency2    ; load index with value
B9D9 13b90103           brclr *BitFlagsB9, #$%00000001, LB9E0    ; branch if bit(s) clear
B9DD ce821c             ldx  #PEFTBL_PumpingEfficiency    ; load index with value
B9E0 bddb07     LB9E0:  jsr  Lookup4ByteTable    ; call subroutine
B9E3 d77f               stab Pulsewidth_Modifier_PumpEff    ; store b into memory

That code brings back memories of assembly language courses from years ago, lol. Call me a stickler but I'll stay with OO languages

[RoadWarrior222]

It's probably a very useful table for getting a 3.0 to idle right when you change cams or do some porting...

Takin' notes.

Should be something more to find for N/A in there somewhere, since hyundai and mitsu apps got about 15hp more with basically the same hardware.

Just when I think it's safe to start digging into mine for serious mods, something else goes wrong and I am chasing that in available wrenching time.

Not thinking my future porting plans will have trouble with idle at the moment though, the methods I'm thinking of are kind of pressure and velocity specific, so it should behave nice in vacuum and low throttle opening.

[ShadowFromHell]

I am very confused as to why it is so hard to convert a NA cal to a boosted cal. Cant you just figure out the crossover point (if say a 2 bar map was installed) and start adding fuel at that point? Same with timing? Rob, you know WAY more stuff then I do about this, I am just curious. From what I have seen for other cars, that's all they seem to do (but I could be wrong). I do agree with Odonti too, be able to mod the tables would be a aid to the turbo guys even if you cant make a full blown turbo cal.