The Holset he341 3.0L

[Vigo]

89 ecu is SMEC (what i've been hoarding for my 3.0 project), 90-91 is SBEC1 (that i know Rob has sold at least one 3.0 cal for), and 92-95 is SBEC2.

[Aries_Turbo]

i dunno if you are explaining that for me or others....

heck im going to have to sit there and look up part numbers as i dont really know what i have 3.0L wise. i know i have some mystery sbecs sitting there that may be 3.0L and alot of turbo and tbi smec's and one 2.5L high torque sbec.

Brian

[Ondonti]

Its a good possibility I will be putting Megasquirt into another car and I don't see myself profiting from diversifying one of my vehicles. Having 3 cars running M.S. doesn't sound bad because the time investment (continuous familiarization) could be shared across platforms. Needing different tuning solutions when I can already tune my Duster with my Phone. The Spirit is still using archeic fuel control with no spark control and strangely it still would have been find if I was not being greedy about the fuel economy. The car has had wiring problems for its entire life (even prior to my owning it) and I still see Rob avoiding looking at the 3.0. I don't have the time or background to try to flesh things out in those old Hex mazes when nobody else cares. Justification for putting megasquirt into this "other" car falls along the same line of simplification of my life. I wish this stupid motor was not broken because I put a lot of time into it and the destruction is now irreparable. I can build another motor but I don't really feel like making that time sacrifice. I don't want to pay anyone either. Instead of giving up on having a nice motor in the Spirit, I am sorta thinking about putting in a junkyard motor and then building up a shortblock with some forged pistons on the side. The hard thing about that is choosing compression ratios. 10, 9, 8...????? That is so hard to choose when I just blew up my motor lean burning to get an extra 1.5mpg and ignoring the bad drivability for 2 years. 8:1 would be very very very fun on pump gas but I like economy and I already have a fun car and if I go 9:1 why do I even bother forged except to avoid...this stuff happening when my cheap side gets the best of me. Or 10:1, low boost, pump gas, low fun, save a few dollars on MPG when I only drive the car about 7,000 miles a year. I think the constant 13 mile trip to work also makes me not want forged pistons.

As for Pics. I had a hard time showing how bad the cylinder wall damage is at the bottom of the bore. It is bad.



























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BTW, I really really really hate the 25 picture rule per post and how that conflicts with the automatic post continuation feature on this site. Somebody make a freaking post so I can post more pictures.

[Vigo]

i dunno if you are explaining that for me or others....

You know i wouldnt talk to you like that! That was for this statement which deserved a clarification:

the 89-91 stuff

anyway

Instead of giving up on having a nice motor in the Spirit, I am sorta thinking about putting in a junkyard motor and then building up a shortblock with some forged pistons on the side

My take would be to throw in another junkyard motor and get real tuning control. You already made 440whp on 5 cylinders with 10:1 cast pistons. This motor only blew up at ~260whp on 6 cyls with 8.x:1 compression because of tuning issues. It lived for years and would have lived FOREVER with real tuning control. I dont even see a need for forged pistons ever on this car, stock pistons would probably take everything an he341 can put out if the tune was right.

If you want to throw money at something you could put longer rods in your old forged motor to bump the CR.

[Ondonti]

The Grim Reaper was Tailgating me.


More pics



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You know i wouldnt talk to you like that! That was for this statement which deserved a clarification:


anyway

My take would be to throw in another junkyard motor and get real tuning control. You already made 440whp on 5 cylinders with 10:1 cast pistons. This motor only blew up at ~260whp on 6 cyls with 8.x:1 compression because of tuning issues. It lived for years and would have lived FOREVER with real tuning control. I dont even see a need for forged pistons ever on this car, stock pistons would probably take everything an he341 can put out if the tune was right.

If you want to throw money at something you could put longer rods in your old forged motor to bump the CR.

Yes I agree real tuning control. It still would have been fine if I never towed. No 6 cylinder car builds 10psi with a big turbo at 3000 rpms and just sits there at part throttle holding speed with high AFR in closed loop. Just stop lying to the ECU and it should have been fine
Real tuning control would give me the high cruise AFRs I want and still work in boost which obviously is what I like.

[Sundance 6g72]

in all fairness, alot of people wouldnt have been able to keep it together with real tuning control (without outside help)

you did it with some crazy regulator. Get some real tuning going and youl be fine

[Ondonti]

in all fairness, alot of people wouldnt have been able to keep it together with real tuning control (without outside help)

you did it with some crazy regulator. Get some real tuning going and youl be fine

I got greedy trying to have fuel economy at cruise by 1. falsifying narrowband output to the ECU to run 17.8-18.2 AFR "stoich", 2. fuel at WOT boost, and the 3. ability to tow. Apparently the DSM formula applies here. I can only have 2 of 3 things with ghetto fuel at the same time. All I really needed to do was pull over and plug the laptop into the wideband and reset things. Before boom I was getting great mileage :P

Towing with boost was pretty awesome though. Having previously always towed at high elevation, I can basically leave it in 5th in most situations. I didn't actualy need to shift to 4th but I stupidly thought it would be a better thing. 5th gear would have peg'd 10:1 AFR since I would need WOT to keep pace. Reaper1 towed the Junkyard back home in his 340 powered Ram and kept it at 50 and I was itching to go 70 up hills like I had been doing :P

I have given it some thought and feel motivated to make this a better overall project. Maybe not right away but I had no plans in the past to change this car except maybe cams. I am thinking MS would let me have a few hundred more HP on pump gas and at that point I could even upgrade the pistons for long term use and they would not be wasted on a ghetto fuel tune. I didn't want that much power before but it kinda makes sense now since that would also get me safe towing and no more lying to the ECU about AFR. Joes car showed an ebay turbo setup making great power, especially after cams, so I think simply cams and MS would get me real happy and be safe. The Duster was very strong with just cams and stock heads on very low boost. At least with 92 octane I won't need big injectors.

[Reaper1]

Reaper1 towed the Junkyard back home in his 340 powered Ram and kept it at 50 and I was itching to go 70 up hills like I had been doing :P

Edit: The truck is a '99 Ram 2500 2WD with the 5.9L 360ci gas engine. I did tow it around 50-60, but I am also a mpg, grandma-driving, slow person in my truck because, well....it sucks on fuel millage! LOL I also was towing without the OD on like you are supposed to (I'm still weary about the tranny right now). I will say I was very surprised that the fuel millage didn't suffer at all towing without the OD on! That could be a good or a bad thing, but I'm choosing the more positive "good thing".

I wanna help get the trailer up to snuff...repack bearings, get the ramps to not bounce off the road when going over expansion joints (although the *THWANG* sound and sparks are kind of entertaining), better tires...I've heard and seen enough towing horror stories that I'm cautious when it comes to trailers.

Anyway, I hope Brent can get the Spirit back up and running as it really is a fun car and I find it extremely cool that it can tow!

[Irocelectric93]

in all fairness, alot of people wouldnt have been able to keep it together with real tuning control (without outside help)

you did it with some crazy regulator. Get some real tuning going and youl be fine

This is true. Alot of people who have "nice" or "built" cars are plug and play tunes. It does take some real dedication to get a car tuned properly. You see what guys like ed put into getting things right and Joe as well. Not that these tunes are perfect but they are fairly safe to be sure. Not to mention its really hard to hammer out all aspects of your tune without a dyno. I know you already know this stuff but i just don't want you to get too discouraged is all.

[Aries_Turbo]

Not to mention its really hard to hammer out all aspects of your tune without a dyno.

Not exactly.

you just need two people in the car, good datalogging stuff on the car and a few sets of brakes.

you load each data breakpoint with the brakes (more load than an intertia dyno) in a low enough gear that you arent speeding like maniacs, and you tune each data breakpoint till its correct.

you can do fuel and timing this way on the road in 2nd or 3rd gear and not even break the speed limit.

its how the super 60 package was developed and thats a pretty safe canned tune.

blasting a car to redline in a high gear on a dyno doesnt keep the engine operating in each area of the map long enough to adjust it appropriately. thats why alot of cars run great on the dyno and then come off and still have bogs and pops and misses when on the street.

Brian

[Sundance 6g72]

Tuner Studio makes it stupid easy. As long as you can get the car to idle nice, you are good. Cruise around with the auto tune on (analyze live) and it can get it pretty damn close. WOT tuning is even easier as long as you can read a data log and change the fuel map accordingly.

BUT most of us MS users already know that stuff I <3 megasquirt.

[Irocelectric93]

Not exactly.

you just need two people in the car, good datalogging stuff on the car and a few sets of brakes.

you load each data breakpoint with the brakes (more load than an intertia dyno) in a low enough gear that you arent speeding like maniacs, and you tune each data breakpoint till its correct.

you can do fuel and timing this way on the road in 2nd or 3rd gear and not even break the speed limit.

its how the super 60 package was developed and thats a pretty safe canned tune.

blasting a car to redline in a high gear on a dyno doesnt keep the engine operating in each area of the map long enough to adjust it appropriately. thats why alot of cars run great on the dyno and then come off and still have bogs and pops and misses when on the street.

Brian

Actually yes. Having another person is probably the biggest piece of the puzzle from what tuning i've done. Datalogging goes a long way but an extra set of eyes and hands helps for certain. I was not implying blasting a car to redline in high gear on a dyno, but rather it is the best place to see specifics on HP/trq curve etc. I don't think that it would be required in this instance for this car seeing as how this IS NOT Brent's race/track car. I did not think/know about that whole brakes idea, but that makes sense. To go on what Joe stated yes tuner studio is "the cats pajamas" as DJ once said.

[Aries_Turbo]

Tuner Studio makes it stupid easy. As long as you can get the car to idle nice, you are good. Cruise around with the auto tune on (analyze live) and it can get it pretty damn close. WOT tuning is even easier as long as you can read a data log and change the fuel map accordingly.

BUT most of us MS users already know that stuff I <3 megasquirt.

i love tuning ms cars with tuner studio. have two friends with the setup. one is a 5.0 mustang and the other is a turbo 420a eclipse with a t2 garret from a td. system works well especially for part throttle.

Actually yes. Having another person is probably the biggest piece of the puzzle from what tuning i've done. Datalogging goes a long way but an extra set of eyes and hands helps for certain. I was not implying blasting a car to redline in high gear on a dyno, but rather it is the best place to see specifics on HP/trq curve etc. I don't think that it would be required in this instance for this car seeing as how this IS NOT Brent's race/track car. I did not think/know about that whole brakes idea, but that makes sense. To go on what Joe stated yes tuner studio is "the cats pajamas" as DJ once said.

i was only commenting on the dyno stuff really because im not looking for bleeding edge power but for safe values that will keep the engine together. the datalogging comment was just so something isnt missed or overlooked. a second person is critical to watch the values while the driver rides the brakes and works the throttle to keep the car at a single rpm/vac/boost etc point till temperatures stabilize so an accurate assessment of what needs to be changed can be determined.

yeah i never thought about loading the car against the brakes either till 2008.... when a bunch of chrysler engineers shared the idea and explained how the s60 package was tuned. i love the idea. i used to do banzai 4th gear runs to tune on low traffic farm roads. now i can do it right next to my house without a fuss.

Brian

[bakes]

Time to buy and flip a car for profit to buy some forged piston and rods . Then find a block and bore that block over .40

[Ondonti]

Currently the owner of a 1998 3.0 with unknown mileage but very clean valvetrain and QTY (2) a523 transmissions for extra parts for the 5 a543's that I own.

[Sundance 6g72]

[Vigo]

5 a543s!!!

Damn, i have to put mine back together before i can even say i own ONE.

[Sundance 6g72]

I have two

[Irocelectric93]

technically i have two and a complete 568 gearset.

[Reaper1]

I've got 3-1/2 of them IIRC...