89 Prototype T-III Project

[5DIGITS]

I don't know, some people have gotten overheating warnings.. Yea forgot the C.

Celsius makes a bit more sense and thank you for the clarification.
Just curious, does the sensor continue to function when it produces an over-temp warning?

Thanks for posting a link - a good pic really helps explain things a bit. Nice Job!

[Aries_Turbo]

Just curious, does the sensor continue to function when it produces an over-temp warning?

i cant say for the innovate meter as i dont have one of those.

i have a techedge 2a0 diy kit that i built years ago. it uses the same sensor as the innovate. it doesnt say "overheat" but it will give a "PID unlock" code for a few seconds and then go back to normal.

Unlocked PID : It's possible for transient conditions to cause the RED LED to flash off briefly. As long as the AMBER LED and green POWER LED remain on then this is an indication of a PID unlock condition.

A PID unlock is not necessarily an error, but it does indicate either very rapid changes in heating or cooling of the sensor, and/or rapid changes in the ambient air-fuel ratio. If this occurs without an explanation (such as rapid changes in throttle position) then it may be an indication of an intermittent somewhere in the wiring, or an aging sensor. Both the LD02 and the TEWBlog logger indicate these conditions.

The heater PID sharp single OFF flash is shown and prior to rev firmware Rev-48 this single OFF flash was also used to indicate a wideband PID unlock too. This condition indicates may indicate the sensor is positioned where it is either too hot or too cool.

A wideband PID is now indicated by a sharp double OFF flash as shown here. If you have earlier firmware and need to differentiate between the two conditions then download the latest HXF flash files and update (note, all 2A0 files start with version number 00).

i think i just get PID for the heater. the sensor continues to function but without the sensor heater being exact, i question the accuracy of the data.

mine only does it with a real sharp stab off the throttle or if the boost shoots up super fast. it doesnt always do it. im assuming the temp change is a bit too much to keep the heat of the sensor exact.

i wonder if the NTK isnt as susceptible to this condition. what controller are you using Ken?

Brian

[Reaper1]

The Innovate basically pegs when it goes into overheat if I'm not mistaken. I have to rewire mine as for some reason under full throttle after a few seconds it seems to get low voltage and throws and error for that, which makes NO sense! They SWORE it was overheating, but I have my sensor far enough downstream that the condition shouldn't happen, plus on the datalogs you can see where the error occurs and the error code is NOT overheat.

Ken, do the bungs for the EGT thermocouple have to be welded in as well, or are they pipe thread?

[5DIGITS]

i cant say for the innovate meter as i dont have one of those.
i have a techedge 2a0 diy kit that i built years ago. it uses the same sensor as the innovate. it doesnt say "overheat" but it will give a "PID unlock" code for a few seconds and then go back to normal.
i think i just get PID for the heater. the sensor continues to function but without the sensor heater being exact, i question the accuracy of the data.
mine only does it with a real sharp stab off the throttle or if the boost shoots up super fast. it doesnt always do it. im assuming the temp change is a bit too much to keep the heat of the sensor exact.
i wonder if the NTK isnt as susceptible to this condition. what controller are you using Ken?

Brian

It's good to hear that the sensor continues to function.
Most decent sensors appear to have the continuous 900C upper operating limit but how short bursts above 900C are handled is determined by the controller being used.
I have an older meter that has no fault protection and newer ECM F/A 1000's that have yet to trip even though I have seen +1650F, at the turbine inlet.
This leads us to the following question..

If +1650F is realized at the oxygen sensor and it's faulting the WB controller, what temperature is being realized, at the turbine inlet ??



---------- Post added at 01:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 PM ----------

The Innovate basically pegs when it goes into overheat if I'm not mistaken. I have to rewire mine as for some reason under full throttle after a few seconds it seems to get low voltage and throws and error for that, which makes NO sense! They SWORE it was overheating, but I have my sensor far enough downstream that the condition shouldn't happen, plus on the datalogs you can see where the error occurs and the error code is NOT overheat.

Ken, do the bungs for the EGT thermocouple have to be welded in as well, or are they pipe thread?

That is personal preference.
There is typically enough material to tap into in the turbine housing but some prefer to drill a small hole, for the probe, and weld on the boss.

I drill and tap the turbine housing and to date, I have never had an issue.
On the other hand, I have seen welded bosses fracture at the weld.
If I had ever had a problem, I guess I could weld on a boss as a corrective measure, rather than the other way around.
Make sense?

[Aries_Turbo]

It's good to hear that the sensor continues to function.
Most decent sensors appear to have the continuous 900C upper operating limit but how any short bursts above 900C are handled is determined by the controller being used.
I have an older meter that has no fault protection and newer ECM F/A 1000's that have yet to trip even though I have seen +1650F, at the turbine inlet.
This leads us to the following question..

If +1650F is realized at the oxygen sensor and it's faulting the WB controller, what temperature is being realized, at the turbine inlet ??

now that i thought about it and read the documentation on techedges website, i dont think mine is as much an overheat code, but just a too fast of a transition for the wb control scheme to handle. it probably points more to a calibration issue on my part... the last tune i was playing with when the controller was showing this error wasnt really dialed in that much and then i broke stuff so i never got back to fixing that.

steady state load, no issue. even with high boost, high gear and high load (22psi, 5th gear, 5000rpm)

as far as temps are concerned, at an inch from the head, it was never more than 1550F. i dont have a thermocouple at the turbine but ill add one there.

nice thing about my wideband controller is that it will datalog 3 thermocouples as well as wideband and rpm and 3 0-5v sources. tps, boost and intake temp voltages.

That is personal preference.
There is typically enough material to tap into in the turbine housing but some prefer to drill a smaller just for the probe and weld on the boss.

I drill and tap the turbine housing and to date, I have never had an issue.
On the other hand, I have seen welded bosses fracture at the weld.
If I had ever had a problem, I guess I could weld on a boss as a corrective measure, rather than the other way around.
Make sense?

while i have my turbo off, ill add a thermocouple at the turbine input.

what is a good thermocouple boss? i remember dave z mentioning lava bosses from some company that chrysler uses/used but i cant remember what company that was.

brian

[5DIGITS]

what is a good thermocouple boss? i remember dave z mentioning lava bosses from some company that chrysler uses/used but i cant remember what company that was.
brian

He is right and I also favor the lava seal.
They don't crush the probe as much, they seal better, and withstand the temps.

Brian, PM me your mailing address and I'll send you a couple of fittings and probes.. Merry Christmas!

[cordes]

While my elephant memory fails me on the name of the company at this moment, I did post the name of it in the SDAC 18 tech session notes thread which I started.

[Aries_Turbo]

i think it was temprel.

Brian

[cordes]

i think it was temprel.

Brian

That's correct.

[5DIGITS]

TEMPREL INC.
206 Industrial Parkway Drive
Boyne City, MI 49712
800-582-5098

[Rampage16V]

When I was running egt probes on my 8v motors at cruise and idle the temp in the swing valve was about 900 to 1100 degrees it would only go higher to about 1400 under 10 psi boost or higher.