Tubular K-frames now available

[Reaper1]

Since you are not making them, can you post the details of it for those that want to build one at home? (ie. pipe dimensions, details on the change to the change to the control arm mounting location, etc...)

Thanks

+1 to this. One way or another I WILL have a tubular K-frame in my car. I know your design works, Brian. I think that IF you decide to release the design info that EVERYONE (vendors included) understands that it's YOUR design and that it's NOT to be used for profit...or that's it's "open source" with the same type of understanding.

Ahh, I think I've found the confusion on my part. You've been talking in the horizontal plane (or possibly both) and I've been thinking purely in the vertical plane. Makes total sense now. I've been staring at too many front view 2D FBDs for my own car's suspension lately.

Ah! Yes, I was thinking in terms of both the horizontal and vertical planes.

[Ondonti]

Well at the least some ideas on the attachment points and let people figure out their own structure. Thats less proprietary anyways.

[GLHS60]

You haven't Swayed Me yet...........

As much as I like you I'm not even going to try, you still call your Engine a motor!!!

Thanks
Randy

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

mass produced automobiles have engines

hot rods have motors

or .. get on your engine cycle N ride lol

[GLHS60]

Engines have starter motors, heaters have blower motors, furnaces have fan motors.

Internal Combustion reciprocating ENGINES do not run on electricity.

Motoring is a term to describe travel, motor cars, cycles and boats, when not powered by electricity, pedals or oars,
are powered by ENGINES.

General Motors makes motor vehicles for traveling not just engines or motors.


Thanks
Randy

[knownenemy]

Since you are not making them, can you post the details of it for those that want to build one at home? (ie. pipe dimensions, details on the change to the change to the control arm mounting location, etc...)

Thanks

YES!!! ++1 again to this.

To have the specs for making the JIG would be awesome!

I have saved every picture I've come across for this K-frame,
but still it's not enough to build it.

If I had numbers, I KNOW I could make it.

What do you say turbo2point2?
Would you consider posting them?
Or PMing them to me?

[Shadow]

As much as I like you I'm not even going to try, you still call your Engine a motor!!!

Thanks
Randy

E = mc 2 my friend.

Once you Fully understand, that this simple equation defines All things................well then, the rest just becomes Semantics

[Pat]

C'mon guys, I don't think it's necessarily fair to pressure Brian to provide the details of his work. Parts development and fabrication is part of how he makes a living, it's his business. If he so chooses not to share details of the time, work, investment he's made in prototyping and testing, that's fine. If he chooses to share, that's up to him, but he'd be voluntarily giving up a product that he could bring back to market to drive revenue for his business if time permits, if materials costs drops or if he were to add resources (hire) to his business. Honestly, if I were in his shoes and in his line of business, I wouldn't.

The questions been asked, I'm sure he's seen it. No need to keep re-asking.

[minigts]

C'mon guys, I don't think it's necessarily fair to pressure Brian to provide the details of his work. Parts development and fabrication is part of how he makes a living, it's his business. If he so chooses not to share details of the time, work, investment he's made in prototyping and testing, that's fine. If he chooses to share, that's up to him, but he'd be voluntarily giving up a product that he could bring back to market to drive revenue for his business if time permits, if materials costs drops or if he were to add resources (hire) to his business. Honestly, if I were in his shoes and in his line of business, I wouldn't.

The questions been asked, I'm sure he's seen it. No need to keep re-asking.

Well said Pat.

[wheming]

It's stuff like this, that show Brian's truely genuine and easy going nature.

I'm glad there are people like Pat to point out the obvious to those that miss the obvious...

[contraption22]

C'mon guys, I don't think it's necessarily fair to pressure Brian to provide the details of his work. Parts development and fabrication is part of how he makes a living, it's his business. If he so chooses not to share details of the time, work, investment he's made in prototyping and testing, that's fine. If he chooses to share, that's up to him, but he'd be voluntarily giving up a product that he could bring back to market to drive revenue for his business if time permits, if materials costs drops or if he were to add resources (hire) to his business. Honestly, if I were in his shoes and in his line of business, I wouldn't.

The questions been asked, I'm sure he's seen it. No need to keep re-asking.

[Shadow]

C'mon guys, I don't think it's necessarily fair to pressure Brian to provide the details of his work. Parts development and fabrication is part of how he makes a living, it's his business. If he so chooses not to share details of the time, work, investment he's made in prototyping and testing, that's fine. If he chooses to share, that's up to him, but he'd be voluntarily giving up a product that he could bring back to market to drive revenue for his business if time permits, if materials costs drops or if he were to add resources (hire) to his business. Honestly, if I were in his shoes and in his line of business, I wouldn't.

The questions been asked, I'm sure he's seen it. No need to keep re-asking.

Glad someone spoke up

I was going to say that the better approach (as cheap as most of this community is, and as much as most will Not want to hear this) would be to save up your $'s and hope that Brian will do another run

This is Not a simple brkt that Anyone can make and IF it fails no big deal! This is your whole front end/ suspension and upon failure the end could be disaster!

I've seen the average welders capability over the years on these forums. Trust me, You Don't want to risk Death by your own hands................

[karlak]

Glad someone spoke up

I was going to say that the better approach (as cheap as most of this community is, and as much as most will Not want to hear this) would be to save up your $'s and hope that Brian will do another run

This is Not a simple brkt that Anyone can make and IF it fails no big deal! This is your whole front end/ suspension and upon failure the end could be disaster!

I've seen the average welders capability over the years on these forums. Trust me, You Don't want to risk Death by your own hands................

I would agree with that.

So I guess the question is....... how much would he have to charge to make it worth his time.

[Turbo Joe]

I personally spoke to brian about this at cecil, I even asked him if he could just set it up and tac-weld it , I would finish it, but nope.. ( hey i had to atleast try right? lol )
he's just super swamped with alot and He is man enough to realize how much he can handle at once. I totally respect that and support him for that. Last thing I want to see
is him take on more than he should and someone gets mad cause "it ain't done yet"... it took me a month to build my header.. why??? i'm usually swamped with work and can sometimes only spend an hr or two here and there.

[Reaper1]

Glad someone spoke up

I was going to say that the better approach (as cheap as most of this community is, and as much as most will Not want to hear this) would be to save up your $'s and hope that Brian will do another run

And that leaves the rest of us where exactly?

This is Not a simple brkt that Anyone can make and IF it fails no big deal! This is your whole front end/ suspension and upon failure the end could be disaster!

I've seen the average welders capability over the years on these forums. Trust me, You Don't want to risk Death by your own hands................

People weld in roll cages, whole rear suspensions, etc. I think this argument is invalid.

I find it strange that when somebody makes a part for a few people on these forums it's all good, but when that person decides to no longer support or make that part, then all of a sudden it's taboo to even ask (this isn't the first time I've seen this happen...probably won't be the last)? Where's the support for the rest of the community there, people? We are in the hobby of highly modifying our cars. If we can't accept some risk at our own failure then we are in the wrong hobby. From what I can tell this part was NEVER meant to be a mass production design. So again, why are all you people getting so bent out of shape that those of us that weren't fortunate enough to be able to afford to get in on the group buy are now asking, ok fine....he doesn't want to make more (or can't), but we still want one...so let us know how.

If Brian doesn't want to share...that's HIS deal, but I don't understand where the rest of you get off on saying that those of us wanting to build one or asking how are somehow slighting him or even you in some way?

I thought we were all in this together...that this was a community? I think we ALL realize we are not going to become super rich off of a niche part and having that attitude isn't going to help things.

[GLHS60]

I'm curious what Brian's opinion of someone else making a similar part would be.

I can't imagine he would mind someone making a similar, not a carbon copy part.

It's not like he made a fortune doing them, so it wouldn't be a financial loss to him.

I say this with the greatest respect for Brian and his skills and his accomplishments.

I don't think copying anyone else's great ideas has ever been taboo in the TM world, more like a compliment ??

Actually, selling a $10.00 part for $5.00 is hard enough, let alone trying to make any real money.

And I'm not bashing any one at all, I've enjoyed and appreciate the great discovery's, some that come to mind:

Garys 4th cyl cooling mod, PT lash adjusters, Holset's, SOHC Variable cam timing, TBI cams, intercooled crank case breathers, EFI tuning, flashing knock retard light, DJ's screen door clutch control, SLH brakes, shifter mounted heater fan switch for multiple boost control, 655 heads, PCV elimination kits, the one piece intake open heart surgery, and, add more here:

The only guys who made serious $$ on TM parts were acannel with his cooling adaptor and intake manifold, I believe he bought a new Corvette with the proceeds, simon bought a new family van with his S60 roller deal, Taft might have had to open multiple savings accounts due to their T-M cam sales, and Ilikeshelbys with his L body shifter kits, and, add more here:

After this gets resolved, and if favorably, someone will have to copy someones control arms..or not.

Thanks
Randy

[turbo2point2]

Wow, this thread sure took a weird turn. In light of the recent commentary, I have decided to make another batch of k frames however they will be $3000 each lol

I very much appreciate those that have spoken for me in my absence from this thread. Their words IMO were not meant to point out anyone in particular, but to more likely convey how they would've felt in the same situation.

If someone wanted to make their own, I say go for it. However, I will not provide dimensions and I hope that can be respected.

I will offer a couple of things- The dimensions are taken directly from the stock frames so I don't see the advantage of having those on hand. Grab a stock frame and reverse engineer mounting points on a jig. The changes to the geometry are what I felt "my" car needed after measuring the characteristics of my suspension and should not be considered optimum or the best settings. The jig is the most important piece in the whole process, don't skimp and build it extra tough and versatile.

[knownenemy]

I will offer a couple of things- The dimensions are taken directly from the stock frames so I don't see the advantage of having those on hand. Grab a stock frame and reverse engineer mounting points on a jig. The changes to the geometry are what I felt "my" car needed after measuring the characteristics of my suspension and should not be considered optimum or the best settings. The jig is the most important piece in the whole process, don't skimp and build it extra tough and versatile.

This is exactly what I had intended to do, and hopefully WILL do.

I appreciate the incite Brian. Being one of those who directly requested the recipe,
I hope you're aware there was no ill intent, ever.

Like the vast majority of TM enthusiasts, I'm usually counting nickles and dimes toward the next part.
So, the natural thought process is to make it myself.

[mopar-tech]

People weld in roll cages, whole rear suspensions, etc. I think this argument is invalid.

I think it is a very valid point- The quality of welders is all over the board. The chance of a roll cage killing you is slim, its not like its called upon every day. You just hope it works when the poop hits the fan. When I pulled the rollbar out of the Reliant (which was done by a local guy with TIG before I met Andy) both of us (Andy and I) were shocked how poor the weld was, in an accident there was a very good chance the rear brace would have broken away and it was pointed right at the back of my head.

It looked good and passed NHRA tech many times but was clearly deficient and I'm glad I dodged a bullet.

A k-member is going to be pounded on every time you turn the key and go for a drive.

I have given this subject a lot of thought since the Reliant is going to be having some suspension mods and I use to work with a very talented welder (Andy has moved to NC). Even though he is one of the best, the rear control arm was still going to be designed in such a way that the parts were "captured" and even in the event of a broken weld there would not be catastrophic failure that would put the car in the wall as soon as it happened.

Brian's welding is top notch and I would trust his work, so much so the Reliant will be heading to his shop for a new cage soon.

I'd would not assist someone doing a home made k-member, the liability would be too much.

Gary

[Shadow]

I will offer a couple of things- The dimensions are taken directly from the stock frames so I don't see the advantage of having those on hand. Grab a stock frame and reverse engineer mounting points on a jig. The changes to the geometry are what I felt "my" car needed after measuring the characteristics of my suspension and should not be considered optimum or the best settings. The jig is the most important piece in the whole process, don't skimp and build it extra tough and versatile.

This is almost exactly what I was going to say in response to Reaper1's comments. All you need is a stock K-member and have at it! But like Brian pointed out, the jig is a Critical piece, so take the time to build it right

My words were not meant to Deter anyone from doing whatever they want to do, just a "common sense" warning from what I've seen over the years.

I will add that Most do not need the whole tubular set-up in order to take advantage of the better suspension characteristics. Prob a good time for someone to modify a stock set-up with spherical bearings or heim joints and make a "how to" thread as a "next best" option..........