what am I trying to buy and what is it worth?

[vipernbox]

Hehehe...

Ya. I know... Guy says it is a 2000 mile T3/T4 turbonetics..

and it has these numbers on it... I don't think the serial is in these numbers... but these are what he has told me are on it....

20358-03... I am assuming this is the exhaust housing and it is a .63 a/r

63 STG 111

Lot 10..

no clue there..

and he says on the 'intake housing' it has

30430 E-57



and claims it is a 'stage 3'... and was on a B16 that made 450whp?


So I am assuming stage 3 turbine with a 57 trim compressor wheel???




The kid seems honest... and I am typically a decent judge of that?


what is a fair price (in the ballpark) for something like this assuming it is in good used condition...

[tryingbe]

Get the compressor wheel measured, and the turbine wheel measured.

[glhs727]

based on the numbers it sounds like a 57 trim in a t04 e housing with a .63 turbine housing and stage 3 wheel. Great for a honda that has a power range of 5000-9000 rpm, totally wrong for a turbododge with a powerband from 3500-6000 rpm. Why? if you look at the compressor maps for a 57 trim, you will see that it doesn't really make power until 5K and up. a s50 wheel would be a better choice. the stage 3 wheel is also too big for a 8v td. (I wouldn't go bigger than a stage 2) you would have trouble getting it to spool (you would not full boost untill 5K), and have tremendous lag, even on a well ported set-up. It can be done, but not the most efficient turbo for our set-up. Unless the guy is giving it away, I wouldn't buy it.

[vipernbox]

that is kinda what I was thinking.. but I wasn't sure... I am mainly looking for something to hang off of that Masi engine... and something that will fit the budget.. a couple HE351VE's have came up... but I don't want to mess with a controller for that... so hummm... I ain't a big hurry at all.. something is bound to turn up...

but anywho... This one could be bought for 300-400 is what I am thinking.. but that doesn't matter much if it isn't what I need...

[glhs727]

the he351CW is nice (not the VE with the controller) and you can get them new on ebay for about $650 roght now. I've been pretty happy with the holset on my 16v lotus motor.

[vipernbox]

yep and with used ones about half that... that is right about what I am planning to budget... Just need to find the right deal.. I figure I am shooting for 400ish HP through a Masi head...


I may hit ya'll up for a S60 for another project though... I'll Pm you about it...

[puppet]

Seems to me that turbo would work nice with a masi engine.

[vipernbox]

Alright... So it looks great...

But it is a 57 trim compressor... I have have not pulled the turbine housing to verify what it is...


But the price was right...

[turbovanman²]

Stage III is great for a 16 valve head, on my TIII full boost around 4000 rpm. Depending on how cheap it is, you could put an S50 or 50 trim wheel on and get the right cover if needed.

Stage III is a bit laggy for a built, ported 8 valve but livable, but if I had the choice again, definately stage II is better for the 8 valve.

[Juggy]

my buddy ran 11.78 @ 116mph in his full weight CSX with this EXACT same turbo....

[vipernbox]

On a 8v 2.2 ??? ^^^ ( I think G Donovan got into the tens with his car on this turbo also with a nice flowing 8v 2.5L)


I have been doing as much reading as I can... and lots of and lots of people simply say "look at the maps the 50 is much better" and while they are mostly right... I think the maps they are looking at are simply scaled differently making the 57 trim wheel appear to be something less than what it really is... I don't doubt that the 50 trim would fit maybe a little better... but shoot.. plug some numbers into Franks calculator and look at the maps that way... http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/ Sure.. the 57 trim looses some efficiency and closes in on the surge line if boost pressures go up and flow doesn't increase as compared to the 50trim... but geez.. when mapped out in equal scale the difference doesn't seem that large to me..

But then again.. I have ZERO real world experience running either one of these turbos... and if I had much choice.. today I would probably pick the 50 trim... But the price was very right on this turbo... and that is very important to this project... but.... it isn't like this turbo HAS to be used for this project if another great deal comes along...



The current plan is for this one to get bolted to that Maserati engine sometime late spring after the bugs are worked out of the chassis with the engine 'stock'

Then the goal needs to be 400ish HP...

[Juggy]

yep 2.2 swirl combo. boost was like a flippin a light switch at 4600-4700
can had all the supporting mods to go with it tho (ported +1mm head, tu header, 3" exhaust, spearco, ported 2 piece)

[vipernbox]

That will make it a handful to autocross.. but what the heck? right..

[Shadow]

FWIW I dyno'd 450WHP with that exact same turbo and ran 11.09 @ 132mph in the Charger @ 36-37psi. Full spool in 4th gear was around 3800rpm. (although my 57 trim had an extended tip wheel, prob higher PR)

[vipernbox]

^ is that what you are still running?


If I am reading these maps right... at those kinds of power and boost levels, with our engines... both the 50 and the 57 trim are pretty much off the map anyway? So these question is only more a matter of how far off the map do you want to be...

[Shadow]

^ is that what you are still running?


If I am reading these maps right... at those kinds of power and boost levels, with our engines... both the 50 and the 57 trim are pretty much off the map anyway? So these question is only more a matter of how far off the map do you want to be...

The 57 trim wheel I was running had an extended tip (this was just before all the extended tip tech came out of BW) so my 57 trim would have had a higher PR than the map your looking at.

For the last 3 years I've been running an HE351 Holset.

[puppet]

^ is that what you are still running?


If I am reading these maps right... at those kinds of power and boost levels, with our engines... both the 50 and the 57 trim are pretty much off the map anyway? So these question is only more a matter of how far off the map do you want to be...

How far off a map you can get probably depends on what your IAT wind up being. The maps are these compressors wheel under "ideal" conditions .. FWIW.

Next thing is whether or not your engine can actually "eat" all the boost. If it can't, he'll stall at a certain level. Then you either cut back on boost or work to improve engine VE. If the engine eats real good or better than, the turbo won't hold boost ... like the engine is running away from it. <--- great scenario but sadly, not likely (something to shoot for though

I've heard it said that the A/R dictates where in the rpm you'll spool. (bigger/later .. smaller/sooner) It also dictates your upper rpm limit to some degree.
The stage of the turbine dictates drive pressure. (that's to say how much back pressure ultimately exists in the manifold driving the turbine) How well your engine flows will dictate an appropriate turbine "stage".

This is overly simplified but I hope you get the idea.