Anybody heard of oil squirters machined into con rods?

[speedfreek500]

I was thinking of a way to make oil squirters in my 2.5 with the the hole for my balance shafts.I was gonna make a 5/16 id tube???? that ran across the edge of the block and got its oil from the open pressure spot and feed the tube and have 4 squirters with a 30 thou or so hole to attach off of the tube and cool the pistons BDC.but than i found this link.I dont know if this has been tried on our cars or not.This rod style squirter maybe alot easier than my little idea.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/pors...ods_164190.htm#

[wallace]

I like the idea of using the balance shaft supply for the oil squirter. You could use some squirters from a factory application that mount near the bottom of the bore.

[shackwrrr]

Arent our rods machined all the way through for full pressure pin lube, and squirting the bottom of the piston?

[John B]

The stock rods have oil squirter holes, but not pin lubing.

[wallace]

Squirter hole on the rod is to lube the thrust side of the bore it doesn't spray the piston.

[contraption22]

Anybody ever weigh the benefits of piston cooling jets in a high-performance application? I know the Chrysler 2.4L Turbo engines have them, and Ford is advertising it like it's the greatest thing to happen to trucks since the chrome mudflap, but in a performance application, do the benefits outweigh the possible downsides of all that extra oil slinging all over your rotating assembly? Seems like so many racers want to try so hard to keep the oil in the pan and off the crank, rods, and pistons. Now some think its a good idea to squirt it up there intentionally. Just opening up for discussion.

[wallace]

Check this thread I started when I was looking into it: http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/in...opic=126172.25 Some good info on benefits and a decent how to on using the main bearing bore for squirters. With the OHC design I think the squirters plumbed externally would work better and could be positioned for optimum effect.

[puppet]

I think that when ever you think about doing something like this it should be to correct a problem area first and foremost.

Do we have a problem with heat cracking pistons? ... pin galling? I don't think this is as prevelant around here as with other engines. Our rods do "spash" lubricate pins and cylinder bores. Might be enough for us as it is.

Could the additional crown cooling effect A/F ratios in a positive way? Add durability to the whole assembly? How much additional heat is there going to be added to the oil? Will this mandate a external cooler or an upgrade to existing? These are the things you'd want to know ... bang vs. buck.

Most adding squirters do so because windage reduction devices have controlled oil so well in the pan that the rotating assembly doesn't supply enough mist to parts that once had the oiling benefit through windage mist. .. and/or they're dry sump now.

If I was to do this though ... I'd consider carefully where oil was taken from. For us, oil pressure reduction of any amount directly effects HLA function and at high rpm this isn't a good move.

Think about using the supply for the squirters off an oil accumulator instead. That way .. with check valves in place .. you're using cool oil and not directly drawing pressure off the engines oil circuit.

[turbovanman²]

I came across an idea from a high performance Honda builder, you machine a grove into the side of the rod and it makes a piston squirter. I did this on mine as the Eagle rods don't have any sort of oiler/squirter, didn't notice any oil pressure loss either.

Squirter hole on the rod is to lube the thrust side of the bore it doesn't spray the piston.

Are you sure about that? I always thought it was for cooling the piston.

[puppet]

I came across an idea from a high performance Honda builder, you machine a grove into the side of the rod and it makes a piston squirter. I did this on mine as the Eagle rods don't have any sort of oiler/squirter, didn't notice any oil pressure loss either.

So, you duplicated a feature already present on our stock rods ... didn't see any oil pressure loss .. and this says what? The OP is talking about adding holes to the oil circuit. .. not the same thing as duplicating our existing (one hole per rod) OEM tech. Could be considered a critical design change.

[moparman76_69]

So, you duplicated a feature already present on our stock rods ... didn't see any oil pressure loss .. and this says what? The OP is talking about adding holes to the oil circuit. .. not the same thing as duplicating our existing (one hole per rod) OEM tech. Could be considered a critical design change.

Actually the OP is talking about machining a grove in the side of the rod.....

[turbovanman²]

So, you duplicated a feature already present on our stock rods ... didn't see any oil pressure loss .. and this says what? The OP is talking about adding holes to the oil circuit. .. not the same thing as duplicating our existing (one hole per rod) OEM tech. Could be considered a critical design change.

NO, I didn't drill any holes in the rod, did you read what I wrote?

Anyhow, I just watched the Porsche vid, he is doing what I did, and what I saw the Honda builder do except I did mine the ghetto way, lol, I just took my die grinder with the thin, flat grinding disc and made a groove in the top, middle of the rod. Seeing that vid, if I have to take it apart one day, I might add another one to the other side, although the Honda guy just did one which I copied.

Oh, found my pics, lol.

[wallace]

Are you sure about that? I always thought it was for cooling the piston.

Yep lubes thrust side of the cylinder bore.

Piston cooling has definite benefits, my understanding is it helps with detonation resistance among other things. Turbovanman so if you followed that link in the first post it sounds like your guy did the same thing on the Eagle rods your using? If there was enough "extra" oil pressure to lube the balance shaft assembly I would think there's enough for 4 squirters so not a critical design change per se.

[turbovanman²]

Yep lubes thrust side of the cylinder bore.

Piston cooling has definite benefits, my understanding is it helps with detonation resistance among other things. Turbovanman so if you followed that link in the first post it sounds like your guy did the same thing on the Eagle rods your using?

Well I learned something new today, lol.

I did the mod, with a grinding disc, just posted pics above.

[wallace]

Cool, have you had the engine apart since you put the rods in? I was thinking you could put the groove in line with the exhaust valve. What I read was if you could only do one squirter it should be where the exhaust valve(s) are since that's going to be the hotter side of the piston.

[turbovanman²]

Cool, have you had the engine apart since you put the rods in? I was thinking you could put the groove in line with the exhaust valve. What I read was if you could only do one squirter it should be where the exhaust valve(s) are since that's going to be the hotter side of the piston.

No, I haven't killed it yet, lol.

That could work like the Porsche mod, he does one forward and one backward, but this should help but if I do take it apart, I'll add another one biasing the exhaust side.

---------- Post added at 12:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 PM ----------

Forgot to add, I'd be leery on some blocks drilling into the main bores like they show unless you know the block is strong enough. The 6.5 GM diesels had issue's cracking because of that.

[puppet]

Actually the OP is talking about machining a grove in the side of the rod.....

Do I have to squint really hard to read between the lines of the 1st post or something??


.... Simon ... couldn't bring myself to do that to a set of rods. Frankly, i don't see how that would even work as a squirter ... more like an dribbler. There is no oil pressure there at that slot what so ever. Whoever talked you into that is full of BS.

[moparman76_69]

Do I have to squint really hard to read between the lines of the 1st post or something??

Nope you just have to watch the video and pay attention.

NVM I'll just do the work for you

but than i found this link.I don't know if this has been tried on our cars or not.This rod style squirter maybe a lot easier than my little idea.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/pors...ods_164190.htm#

[turbovanman²]

I came across an idea from a high performance Honda builder, you machine a grove into the side of the rod and it makes a piston squirter. I did this on mine as the Eagle rods don't have any sort of oiler/squirter, didn't notice any oil pressure loss either.




Are you sure about that? I always thought it was for cooling the piston.

Do I have to squint really hard to read between the lines of the 1st post or something??


.... Simon ... couldn't bring myself to do that to a set of rods. Frankly, i don't see how that would even work as a squirter ... more like an dribbler. There is no oil pressure there at that slot what so ever. Whoever talked you into that is full of BS.

Mines in red, not sure how you have to "read" between the lines.

As for not working, have you tried it, are you saying the hi po engine builder and the Porche guy are blowing hot oil?

How can you say there is no oil pressure there? So your saying that say 70 psi of oil pressure than goes into the rod bearing just simply vanishes, poof, gone? Have you ever watched the bottom end with the pan off and the oil system functional? I have, and trust me, alot of oil comes out the side of the rod bearing, which of course it does as where else would the oil go?

I have a bad eagle rod, maybe one day if I get the energy, I'll mock up a bottom and and see what happens.

[speedfreek500]

Anybody ever weigh the benefits of piston cooling jets in a high-performance application? I know the Chrysler 2.4L Turbo engines have them, and Ford is advertising it like it's the greatest thing to happen to trucks since the chrome mudflap, but in a performance application, do the benefits outweigh the possible downsides of all that extra oil slinging all over your rotating assembly? Seems like so many racers want to try so hard to keep the oil in the pan and off the crank, rods, and pistons. Now some think its a good idea to squirt it up there intentionally. Just opening up for discussion.

Nascar engines have a oil squirts to cool the pistons and help alot with reliabilty and endurance.

---------- Post added at 08:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 PM ----------

I think that when ever you think about doing something like this it should be to correct a problem area first and foremost.

Do we have a problem with heat cracking pistons? ... pin galling? I don't think this is as prevelant around here as with other engines. Our rods do "spash" lubricate pins and cylinder bores. Might be enough for us as it is.

Could the additional crown cooling effect A/F ratios in a positive way? Add durability to the whole assembly? How much additional heat is there going to be added to the oil? Will this mandate a external cooler or an upgrade to existing? These are the things you'd want to know ... bang vs. buck.

Most adding squirters do so because windage reduction devices have controlled oil so well in the pan that the rotating assembly doesn't supply enough mist to parts that once had the oiling benefit through windage mist. .. and/or they're dry sump now.

If I was to do this though ... I'd consider carefully where oil was taken from. For us, oil pressure reduction of any amount directly effects HLA function and at high rpm this isn't a good move.

Think about using the supply for the squirters off an oil accumulator instead. That way .. with check valves in place .. you're using cool oil and not directly drawing pressure off the engines oil circuit.

I dont think having 4,30 thou holes would make a huge difference in oil pressure loss?