E85

[me235]

I never see much talk on here about runnin our cars on e85, is there a reason for this, or just no one wants to?

[turbovanman²]

Why? Because its so rare, what's the point,

Gary from Portland is running E85 and maybe 1 or 2 others.

[85boostbox]

i ran e85 on a 87 lebaron T1 log set to 12 pounds and FFV injectors. Didnt really see a difference expect in my wallet. I think it would be good on more boost and a correct tune/cal for it. It had a very noticeable difference in gas mileage. That was the wallet comment. Just my 2 cents

[CNH320]

Ran it in my SRT4 this summer with HOM and it was awesome. 105 octane for $2.70/gal! I'm now thinking of converting my CSX over as well if i can find the time!

Some interesting figures for my SRT on E85...

E85
$2.69/gal
21 mpg
=$0.13/mile

Gas (Premium)
$3.10/gal
28 mpg
= $0.11/mile

My daily commute is 80miles so about 20,000 mi/year

So that works out to be a difference of about $350/year in fuel. Too bad the neon has such a small tank (~12.5 gal) so the range sucks. But the benefit is running 15-20 deg more spark advance and a lot more fun!

[x.Gen]

105 octane for $2.70/gal!

this has to be the most frequently stated fact about it. research octane, ok, but that is only half the story. I had gotten more interested in e85 recently, did some thinking about it. more from a real world 'can I run it frequently, easily' (enough to justify me buying the hardware for). long and short was not really worth it.

there's a station less than 5 miles from me that sells cam2. I'd be extremely hard pressed to find anyone local selling e85 (and you can't go 2 miles without passing a gas station where I live...forget about finding any out in the sticks). and to be honest with you, the cost of a mild blend with the cam2 to get the equivalent pump octane was actually cheaper (even if I could find e85 anywhere).

I'll take a good tune on pump gas and great MPG for the street anytime. I can see it for the track, but honestly - how much power can you actually use on the street to begin with? I have yet to mess with a race gas tune, only because where am I going to run it? except for the track there aren't many places around here I can get away with more than a quick blast, before I run out of roadway or get nabbed.

I can't see the logic of it on the street, or a daily driver. not for the few seconds I might even briefly approach the limits of even a stock setup on a good tune.

[larryB]

Ran it in my SRT4 this summer with HOM and it was awesome. 105 octane for $2.70/gal! I'm now thinking of converting my CSX over as well if i can find the time!

Some interesting figures for my SRT on E85...

E85
$2.69/gal
21 mpg
=$0.13/mile

Gas (Premium)
$3.10/gal
28 mpg
= $0.11/mile

Those are about the same as my hi-way mileage numbers for my Sundance. I've been running strictly E85 for the last couple of years. It was up to 2.53/gal here last week when I filled up, thats the highest I've ever paid. Still consider it a great deal for 100+ octane fuel. When I bought my 93 Caravan I towed it 100 miles home with the Sundance mileage went down to 10mpg at 70 mph.

[85boostbox]

i might try it again in my wagon build. It is pretty pleatiful here in SW FL. SO who knows..

[me235]

Lol yea I know that it's alot higher octane, so it can't be compared to premimum, more race gas which is 7$ a gallon, e85 is at a station in my town and I know alot of turbo'd hondas in the area so I was just wondering if tds were runnin it, is there anyone that makes Cals for our cars on e85??

[DodgeZ]

It costs a little more then 93 to run but it is a lot more fun. Plus you are paying Americas instead of funding islands being built in the Gulf of Oman.....

[85boostbox]

I just actually tonight PMed Shelgame on a cal for e85. Said he would do it possibly. Would be a cool cal. Will talk to him more probably tomorrow on it.

[DodgeZ]

bump this thread for e85 support....

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...950#post743950

[Ondonti]

I never see much talk on here about runnin our cars on e85, is there a reason for this, or just no one wants to?

I have to drive north of marysville to get E85. Making me not want to run corn anymore. I used to live 1 block away from a station but stupid Seattle has no E85.


E85 makes the same power as vp import 116 octane fuel (which costs 20 dollars per gallon and makes more power then C16), ignore people talking about octane etc, its not all about octane. As long as you don't lean out, Ethanol is a lot more forgiving on ignition timing mistakes so its also easier to get power out of it.

[turbovanman²]

Wish we had it,

If I want some, I have to drive to "Snoqualmi", which is a couple hours away.

Found this E85 locator-

http://www.neare85.com/

[x.Gen]

Wish we had it,

If I want some, I have to drive to "Snoqualmi", which is a couple hours away.

Found this E85 locator-

http://www.neare85.com/

that's even more depressing info than the other source I found showing only 2 stations in my state selling it...shows nothing within an hour's drive from me. factor in the decreased MPG it gives you, I'd use half a tank of e85 just to be able to fuel up. it is simply easier to find race fuel.

Lol yea I know that it's alot higher octane, so it can't be compared to premimum, more race gas which is 7$ a gallon, e85 is at a station in my town and I know alot of turbo'd hondas in the area so I was just wondering if tds were runnin it, is there anyone that makes Cals for our cars on e85??

it is not truly a "much higher" octane. it has a slightly higher pump octane, but a much lower heating value than gasoline. if you were to blend race fuel with premium, you can actually do it slightly cheaper when you factor in fuel consumption. so you aren't truly paying $7/gal, or higher like by me. the end result would be a similar pump octane, but e85 still has the better heating value.

for me, like a lot of people, supply is the biggest issue. I'm sure there are others around the few small pockets of supply nationally running it, but it isn't big on the boards except for track use because of it, I'm sure.

[DodgeZ]

it is not truly a "much higher" octane. it has a slightly higher pump octane, but a much lower heating value than gasoline. if you were to blend race fuel with premium, you can actually do it slightly cheaper when you factor in fuel consumption. so you aren't truly paying $7/gal, or higher like by me. the end result would be a similar pump octane, but e85 still has the better heating value.

for me, like a lot of people, supply is the biggest issue. I'm sure there are others around the few small pockets of supply nationally running it, but it isn't big on the boards except for track use because of it, I'm sure.

It is like 109 octane for roughly 3.10 a "gas gallon" (adding 30% to the cost).

[x.Gen]

I can't be the only one here that has read up on this. research octane, not pump octane. it isn't the same.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/h...tane_rate.html

Next, just as with conventional gasoline, with E85 and other ethanol blends there are multiple ways to measure octane. When we speak of the pump or road octane of a fuel generally we mean the (R+M)/2 method, where two separately derived ratings, research octane (RON) and motor octane (MON), are added together and their sum divided by 2. For example, if the motor octane of a gasoline is 90 and its research octane is 98, its (R+M)/2 or pump octane is 94. This averaged value, also known as antiknock index or AKI, is the number shown on gas pumps here in North America.

The research octane of ethanol is impressively high, which is a beautiful thing for high-compression and high-boost applications. However, its motor octane (the more extreme standard) is relatively low when compared to racing gasolines of similar (R+M)/2 octane. What this means is that E85 is highly resistant to knock but somewhat sensitive to preignition, comparatively speaking. (Knock and preignition are two different conditions: Knock is spontaneous combustion in the end gases before the flame-front can arrive, while preignition takes place before the timed ignition spark occurs, typically due to localized incandescence or hot spots in the combustion chamber.)

I could pull more from other sources, but this is what I've understood from it after I finally wrapped my head around it. it is the heating value (air-charge cooling) that gives e85 it's good performance rep. the octane characteristic is a misnomer outside of the lab.

[GLHSHELBY]

It is like 109 octane for roughly 3.10 a "gas gallon" (adding 30% to the cost).

most old school drag racers are running this now here anyways.This guy I know swears by it,he runs it in all 3 of his drag cars with more consistency

[DodgeZ]

I can't be the only one here that has read up on this. research octane, not pump octane. it isn't the same.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/h...tane_rate.html

I could pull more from other sources, but this is what I've understood from it after I finally wrapped my head around it. it is the heating value (air-charge cooling) that gives e85 it's good performance rep. the octane characteristic is a misnomer outside of the lab.

I don't get what you are trying to say? Are you saying the octane doesn't matter?

[Ondonti]

I don't get what you are trying to say? Are you saying the octane doesn't matter?

Yes, talk about Octane and Alcohol are pretty silly. Everyone throws around useless numbers and nobody agrees. The real numbers are fairly low. The idea of fudging the number because of "cooling" is just v8 ricer talk. If people don't like the octane system, make up a system called HP/cubic foot of air or something stupid.
The fact is it makes the same power as the best oxygenated racing gasoline on the planet, from the pump. So who cares about an octane number? Octane is just one way of analyzing fuel.
Having to run more fuel to get stoich is why it can keep up with the oxygenated fuels. Switch to E90 or E95/98 and watch the torque numbers pile up.

For anyone making trips for E85, I suggest getting a bunch of 5-6 gallon containers and filling your car up with those.
I have had success leanburning E70 and getting good mileage, meaning 18+:1 air fuel ratio at cruise. Running that ratio will get about the same mileage as an OEM tuned gas engine. I cheated before and just changed my narrowband switchover point with zeitronix (had no narrowband). Drivability is terrible.

I just checked Mapquest and I guess I can get there in 28.30 miles, not that bad. 2 gallons to get there and back.

Simon, I am guessing you went to snoqualmie because you were having a track day and someone needed fuel? The Marysvill/Smokey point location is WAY closer to Cananananada. Save you 60+ miles each direction.

So If my 17 gallons of containers are empty, and my fuel tank is super low, I can buy about 26 gallons of fuel, 3 bucks a gallon, 78 dollars, and 6 dollars of that are wasted traveling. I guess you could make something out of your trip, tune the car or have some fun

[x.Gen]

I don't get what you are trying to say? Are you saying the octane doesn't matter?

not so much - I'm saying it isn't the effective characteristic of e85, most specifically when applied to our cars. octane does not clearly define this, as it more easily would with generic pump gas. I can't remember who, someone else had posted about this probably several months back. I couldn't get it, it was kind of like reading about offsets with calibrations. it doesn't make sense until you've really absorbed it.

it is the heating value (and oxygen content) that gives you a better idea of what makes e85 a good fuel. if you compare all specs of (for example) race fuel to e85, it becomes more obvious. I'm not knocking it by any means, I'd absolutely consider it, if I could find any! the thing to note is this is not the fuel to DIY tune on without knowing what you are doing. what I learned from the post that originally inspired further reading was although the margin for error is wide (knock surpression), at the furthest limit of the fuel there is less room for mistakes in situations with many variables.