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Thread: The Chargers quest for 9's

  1. #41
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by boost geek View Post
    When you say drop the lines, you still have the 2 looped together or left open/plugged? I run a power rack with the lines looped.
    My car is 2460 with 1/2 tank of fuel and everything in it.
    I would leave them looped together, so you don't make a mess and keep the rack lubed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    This is what I don't get? How the H#LL is everyone so heavy? Must be like dyno #'s, depending what scale you go to! lol
    It's the air up there, its thinner so!


    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    I can tell you this, we're going to find out exactly what a swap from ported stock mani to header will do on a build like this and within the next 6-8 months. I proved to myself, if no one else that what I believed was in fact true, now it's time to move on and see what else can/can't be proven!
    Can't wait, Aaron's test on a stock engine was an eye opener,
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  2. #42
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    It's the air up there, its thinner so!
    Nope, I'm 1400ft higher than him and mine is still a heavy beast. I've always had the opposite feeling Rob. How are all you guys so damn light?

  3. #43
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshad View Post
    Nope, I'm 1400ft higher than him and mine is still a heavy beast. I've always had the opposite feeling Rob. How are all you guys so damn light?
    Well, L-body for one! lol Maybe the scale I used was screwed? We'll all have to have a weigh off at SDAC next year!

    Robert Mclellan
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  4. #44
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshad View Post
    Nope, I'm 1400ft higher than him and mine is still a heavy beast. I've always had the opposite feeling Rob. How are all you guys so damn light?
    Metric!!!

  5. #45
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Port the turbine housing, nothing else should be required to support 650whp. I won't get into the technique of doing that here as its not what most people think.

    I am going to install staging brakes in my car whenever I get the AWD setup going. I try to leave too hard because racing soft feels like I shouldn't bother showing up. Still, I have seen some EVo's that roll really slow out and still run 9 flats on a manual, they just have a little delay before completely letting out the clutch.
    That would probably be the MOST important mod your car could have when it comes to going fast with a manual and not breaking drivetrain parts. Nothing to do with power or weight, but it will allow you to aggressively leave the hole which is all that really matters at this point in your trek.

    600hp will do it. I think you can do it on less if you can roll out hard. I mean really really hard, with a nasty 1-2 shift.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  6. #46
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Port the turbine housing, nothing else should be required to support 650whp. I won't get into the technique of doing that here as its not what most people think.
    Are you saying this is all I would have to do.....Peroid? (other than running more boost) Or do you simply mean that this is what needs doing in order to make the HE351 650WHP capable. (with the understanding that I would need all other mods to support this as well)

    Also, are you suggesting that with a ported turbine housing the stock ported mani will do? (this would be a first for our community! Well, second if you include me. )

    Robert Mclellan
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  7. #47

    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    He's saying that making drastic power increases isn't the only way to make your car run 9's.

    You need a way of coming out of the hole modulating the clutch, not just a rip-soar side step. If you're able to manage that task and keep a clutch living in it, then you don't need much more MPH to hit your mark.

  8. #48
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by 8valves View Post
    He's saying that making drastic power increases isn't the only way to make your car run 9's.

    You need a way of coming out of the hole modulating the clutch, not just a rip-soar side step. If you're able to manage that task and keep a clutch living in it, then you don't need much more MPH to hit your mark.
    I caught that part, I was asking about the ported turbo housing part.

    With an auto I would agree with you. FWD, auto, high 130's mph could = 9's.

    With an MTX most need 148-150mph traps to see 9's.

    I'm thinking I'm going to need 145mph Minimal to reach that goal. If I did it on less I would be extatic, but I need to stay realistic about this.

    When I was staring at the Charger a couple weeks ago, this is what I was thinking. Remove 200lb from the car, get light weight rear tires and rims (-40lb) rotating mass, make 50 more WHP.

    I believe the car is capable of 10.5x's right now, the way I was running it last time out. I also believe I will be able to get this car into the 1.5x 60's. IF that turns out to be true AND I can shift this thing Right, coupled with the changes above, I should be close.

    Don't forget, even with what the car has done, I'm still running PS, I'm still running the waterpump off the mtr as well. So there are a # of areas I could gain some extra power from if I needed it.

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
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    8 valve, No Nitrous!
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  9. #49
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    I'd say another 100 whp,

    Even on bikes, going from 10's to 9's is a big step.
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  10. #50
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Are you saying this is all I would have to do.....Peroid? (other than running more boost) Or do you simply mean that this is what needs doing in order to make the HE351 650WHP capable. (with the understanding that I would need all other mods to support this as well)

    Also, are you suggesting that with a ported turbine housing the stock ported mani will do? (this would be a first for our community! Well, second if you include me. )
    Sorry, I am just referring to the turbo. Do not clip the wheels until you have hogged out the housing to high heaven. But seriously, I would just never clip the wheel.
    There is a reason the VGT version is able to go to a huge A/R equivalent, its because the turbine wheel has plenty left. Just gotta use a little logic. I have done a lot of holset research in the past regarding the exhaust side but the VGT thing I just thought of. It has already been my opinion that porting is the way to go based on HX40's using the old crappy bullseye housing.

    Basically, let go of any FWD dodge logic when it comes to making power with your turbo. I would say most of peoples ideas about turbos are wrong. Even some seemingly sound technical points made in the ".48 a/r housing" thread were wrong. Bigger wheels do not change your a/r. Its not really the place for that commentary, I prefer that over PM because we have quite a few people who don't deserve the 411 that they will want to fight about. Its a really simple deal but not something people understand.

    Whatever power someone made at 55psi on diesel, you can do better in the upper 30's on gasoline with the right 8 valve motor setup. I am pretty sure 55psi is losing a LOT of HP just due to increase heat levels creating less dense intake charges.
    Bansheenut's holset that i ported went much faster then Carrol's similar R/T setup, on less then 20 pounds of boost, at 4400 feet, heavier car, and with coupler halfway off so the turbo was really pissed off. I think he could have run 11.5 on 20 pounds of boost in his 3400 pound pig with good conditions and a good coupler. That was with a simple stage 5 FWD cal and pump gas with some meth. 2400 pound car with 35 pounds of boost on big slicks. Hell yes 9.99 if you can put the power down from start to finish.

    Staging brakes though, seriously. Utah had a 10 second n/a 5 speed honda at 4400 feet last year. All glass windows, etc. They put every bit of power they have to the track for the greatest % of the run possible.
    If you want to handicap yourself with manual and FWD (which I don't have a problem with) then you should align the rest of the stars in your favor!
    That honda is so dang impressive it really should embarrass ALL of us for putting so much emphasis on HP and not on racing. That car really makes a lot of us look like ricers.

    67mm turbos have pushed much heavier EVo's into the 8's so a 9.99 on a 60mm turbo is not crazy. For me I would never change turbos unless I changed displacement. Crazy that these little turbos can run 8's and 9's.
    Isn't Warren on the verge of 9.99 with a much smaller turbo then you anyways? I think the huge difference between 5 speed and auto in our community is because we 5 speed guys just don't take certain things seriously like we should. Hondas are still beating the 8 second auto red sled neon, with manual transmissions.
    Last edited by Ondonti; 11-22-2010 at 04:25 AM.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  11. #51
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor rx2mazda's Avatar
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    I think he could have run 11.5 on 20 pounds of boost in his 3400 pound pig with good conditions and a good coupler.
    You can't bench race your friends way into mid 11's.
    Carroll

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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by rx2mazda View Post
    You can't bench race your friends way into mid 11's.
    Sorry Rob, couldn't resist lol.
    Carroll

    SILVER, 85 GLH-R/T, TIII powered, Fueltech, ID1300's. PTE5857
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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Sorry, I am just referring to the turbo. Do not clip the wheels until you have hogged out the housing to high heaven. But seriously, I would just never clip the wheel.
    Like I've said in the past, with the right wheel (and ONLY the right wheel) you can get away with a clip Before concidering a larger A/R housing. Been there, done that, and it worked flawlessly. From 20 psi and on you couldn't tell it was clipped!

    I agree with porting the housing and there are a # of other things that can be done to make it breath like a larger A/R as well.

    Don't get me wrong, this turbo isn't going anywhere! (cept into the 9's!) It will be the last thing on my build that I will concider changing and ONLY after I have taken it to it's absolute limits!

    BTW, my housing is lightly ported already. Although, if I'm going to the efficiency of a tube header, I really don't think I'll have to do anything to the turbo, but I guess we'll see.

    Robert Mclellan
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  14. #54
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by rx2mazda View Post
    Sorry Rob, couldn't resist lol.
    Knock yourself out!

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
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  15. #55
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Staging brakes though, seriously. Utah had a 10 second n/a 5 speed honda at 4400 feet last year. All glass windows, etc. They put every bit of power they have to the track for the greatest % of the run possible.
    If you want to handicap yourself with manual and FWD (which I don't have a problem with) then you should align the rest of the stars in your favor!
    That honda is so dang impressive it really should embarrass ALL of us for putting so much emphasis on HP and not on racing. That car really makes a lot of us look like ricers.

    67mm turbos have pushed much heavier EVo's into the 8's so a 9.99 on a 60mm turbo is not crazy. For me I would never change turbos unless I changed displacement. Crazy that these little turbos can run 8's and 9's.
    Isn't Warren on the verge of 9.99 with a much smaller turbo then you anyways? I think the huge difference between 5 speed and auto in our community is because we 5 speed guys just don't take certain things seriously like we should. Hondas are still beating the 8 second auto red sled neon, with manual transmissions.
    First off, can you show me some evidence of MTX FWD's running the kind of times I'm talking about at high 13X mph? Or ANY mph below 145? Cause I still don't see it! (and let's stick to turbo 4 cyl FWD's for fair comparo)

    Secondly, exactly what advantage do you think I'm going to see running a staging brake?

    Lastly, I've done everything myself so far. No rev limiters, staging boxes ect. When I said I'm pretty sure this car can go 10.5X the way I ran it last time out, I ment I could do that my self. When I add launch control amoungst other things, and can hold boost off the line and launch at the same RPM (and dial that RPM into hooking me better) I'm not Only expecting to be more consistant..........

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  16. #56
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Brent, can you explain your methods for putting ALL the power down etc, thanks.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
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  17. #57
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    First off, can you show me some evidence of MTX FWD's running the kind of times I'm talking about at high 13X mph? Or ANY mph below 145? Cause I still don't see it! (and let's stick to turbo 4 cyl FWD's for fair comparo)

    Secondly, exactly what advantage do you think I'm going to see running a staging brake?

    Lastly, I've done everything myself so far. No rev limiters, staging boxes ect. When I said I'm pretty sure this car can go 10.5X the way I ran it last time out, I ment I could do that my self. When I add launch control amoungst other things, and can hold boost off the line and launch at the same RPM (and dial that RPM into hooking me better) I'm not Only expecting to be more consistant..........
    BTW, I hope this didn't come out the wrong way! I have a habbit of #'ing things when I'm talking, but reading it over, I realized it could give someone the impression that I'm not buying what's being offered and my post could be missconstrude as "Defensive".

    Hope no one's taking it that way, because I was really only talking in a very straight forward kind of way.

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  18. #58
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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    BTW, I hope this didn't come out the wrong way! I have a habbit of #'ing things when I'm talking, but reading it over, I realized it could give someone the impression that I'm not buying what's being offered and my post could be missconstrude as "Defensive".

    Hope no one's taking it that way, because I was really only talking in a very straight forward kind of way.
    Wow what a dick! Voicing his opinion and all.

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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by rx2mazda View Post
    You can't bench race your friends way into mid 11's.
    Hahaha... true! Then again... you were bench racing' this GLHT pretty hard last winter

    I'd love to bench race my current project.... but don't dare to. I'll curse myself.

    Brent, I've seen on youtube a white Evo push the 6262 into the 8's and dyno 740whp. That is unbelievable on that turbo...

    BTW Brent.... what's up with your car? I know it's down for the count.....
    Quote Originally Posted by 22mopar
    have a look at my feedback on the forum. all positive.

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    Re: The Chargers quest for 9's

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    First off, can you show me some evidence of MTX FWD's running the kind of times I'm talking about at high 13X mph? Or ANY mph below 145? Cause I still don't see it! (and let's stick to turbo 4 cyl FWD's for fair comparo)
    http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2592482

    It's probably better to look at what the NA honda guys are doing since they are the ones fighting for every fraction of a second. All those cars are MTX. I can't point you to any build threads...but most of those honda's are running K-series pushing half the power you are and can rip a faster 1/4 with less MPH. And most are only a few hundred pounds lighter. These aren't 1500 lb shells. They get there because they break down every last little detail and try to perfect it. These aren't the crappy 17 second honda's running on the street. These guys KNOW what they're doing and they sure as hell can drive. I'm not knocking you; that's just the facts. Another fact is I bet all these cars have 10x more invested in them then you. That, in my mind, makes your car much more respectable

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