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Thread: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

  1. #521
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    Some of those aluminum replacement radiators are twice as thick as others.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  2. #522
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Some of those aluminum replacement radiators are twice as thick as others.
    I wish i could have found one like that.
    I might need to see what other options there are that are easy. If i can get by with this it will be ok. The stock fan is quieter and pulls less amps than the hayden, and the new radiator was only $50 something with a coupon code i found for advance. And, it was a Carquest radiator.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  3. #523
    turbo addict
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    Nice! Sometimes if you can find a "HD" or "towing package" radiator they will be larger or be thicker (more cores).

  4. #524
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    Nice! Sometimes if you can find a "HD" or "towing package" radiator they will be larger or be thicker (more cores).
    I was looking, and hoping but didn't find one.
    I'll try test running what i have now when i have some time next week. I hope to race again in a couple weeks. I need the practice before Cecil.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  5. #525
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    The one I bought was one of the thick ones, at the junkyard you see both. Some are freakin tiny.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  6. #526
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    MeanMini Update


    Lots to catch up here. Ok, lets see if I can remember everything since I have had a couple of spin off threads for some issues that started arising.

    As I was going through the tail end of the race season and starting to prepare for Cecil, Mini started to show some issues with the cooling system.
    The short story is the coolant was being pushed to the overflow and seemingly not coming back.
    The spin off threads are here:
    MeanMini cooling system anomaly
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ad.php?p=94590

    Water pump cavitation
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh....php?p=1096799

    MeanMini boost creep resolution
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=403

    So, I was still hopeful to make it to Cecil and arranged to tow Mini to SloweSpeed and have a checkup, and also have a stock cam degreed in to get some comparative numbers on some Cecil runs. While getting the coolant system checked out, we saw some things that I didn’t want to ignore and race with. The worst of which was seeing bubbles appearing in the radiator when the engine was rev’d up to about 3000rpm. So I decided to leave Mini in Brian’s care and go to Cecil just to spectate.

    Brian had the task of finding out what was going on with the coolant system, possibly doing a headgasket replacement (since it almost looked like it was going to be the cause) and then there were a list of wishlist items to get knocked out as long as he had her. Those items included:
    - sorting out the boost creep resolution - either enlarged internal wastegate port & puck, or going with an external mounted on the TU header.
    - replacing hard fuel line from tank to engine compartment in ⅜” SS and AN fitting in/out of the fuel filter
    - Fabbing a turbo support bracket for the TU header
    - Fabbing a intake manifold heat shield to try to help shield the header heat (even though header and turbine housing are TU thermal coated)
    - Fabbing a turbo intake to locate the air filter behind the intercooler and away from the coolant radiator heat
    - Install and degree in a new TU cam and new followers

    I got the call this past weekend that the work was all complete and she would be ready for the scheduled pick up on thursday 3/3. Brian reported that she sounds good and is running good. The boost can now be controlled and initial testing had her holding 8-9psi up through 6300 rpm.
    She is running way too rich at start up, which had always been a problem due to not being able to properly tune in the pumping efficiency curve. I hoping I can get that worked out easily now.
    Brian also reported some remarks that she feels good, and loses traction now at 8 psi, and has quick throttle response. Sounds like a whole lot of WIN to me.
    Really looking forward to seeing Gus’ van back, better than she ever has been. Brian does such nice work, you can tell he really loves these cars.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  7. #527
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    Looks like i never updated after my installation of the intercooler fans.
    They are Spal fans, which i listed the model number previously. I have 2.
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    I have them wired off the same relay for the radiator fan, and with the manual override switch.
    This should help since previously there was no fan to help cool between runs.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  8. #528
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    MeanMini:
    Working to try and get the tuning dialed in a bit better and fix some things that i never seemed to have much luck with. Made what seems like a major breakthrough!
    Cold start has always been very rich. It was dependant on starting temp, but could be low 10 AFR or even high 9's if starting around 35-40F.
    Compared my cal to the turbonator Custom G cal and found i had all the fuelcoldenrichment curves of the swirl head. Changed them all to the custom G head values, and it helped dramatically.

    I'll have to see if i have 2 startups logged of the difference.
    I do still have a bit of an issue on hot restarts, but it is no worse than before. I think most of that issue is from the WB2NB as the Innovate MTX-L is the only 02 feedback.
    But i call this a major win.
    Now to get the PumpEffTbl optimized i will be sitting in high cotton, as they say here!
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  9. #529
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    cool

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  10. #530
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    cool
    Still can't figure out why my PumpEffTbl looks like this:
    (Comparision with original custom cal from BoostButton )
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Does this really indicate injector scaling isn't right?
    For the most part the AFR looks good, especially in the upper rpm's.

    Will have to try a 2nd gear pull, but finding a place to stretch her out to 6300rpm in 2nd isn't easy. I have to shift out at about 101mph.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  11. #531
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    I know there are a few people with really well flowing heads who nearly max out the Pftbl so I'm not surprised that yours look like that.

  12. #532
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    I know there are a few people with really well flowing heads who nearly max out the Pftbl so I'm not surprised that yours look like that.
    I was talking about it some with Warren (csxtra) and i'm not sure if how they worked around it with the LM (and older tuner software) would work properly with the AFR settings calculator and suggested curves.
    Since PumpEffTbl is vs RPM and the FuelFullThrottle is vs MAP, don't know if it would mess up the calculators.
    At the end of the day however, i could really care less what the PumpEffTbl "looks" like, and more about what my AFR vs RPM and AFR vs MAP look like. I want it to be safe.

    I did change the AFR setting calculators to E10 fuel S.G., and have the fuel press set for the same as the injector rated pressure. (Using 90#/hr as my injector size. ((95/hr at 43.5psi running actual f.p. of 38psi)) )

    This datalog was only low boost, so hit a max of about 11psi.
    Logs look a bit different in 2nd compared to 1st gear.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  13. #533
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    Took Mini to work today. Early morning cool air, was about 50's here. Things had seemed decent with the latest cal, but really needed to get an opportunity to stretch out the gears.
    Well, had the g-valve set to make about 14psi.
    Managed to run through 1st and 2nd up to shift point. I got a good log and things look pretty good. I think i will add a bit more to the 3200-3500 spot. But other than that, it looks pretty right. Can't wait to hit higher boost pressures. It feels pretty stout at this ~14psi.
    I'll post my current cal, the full datalog of the "run" and a couple condensed log for the 1st gear and 2nd gear that was used for the AFR tool on the peftbl. I've got some screenshots too of the MPTune screen with the 1st gear afr and 2nd gear afr. These were with normal pump gas, 93 oct E10.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  14. #534
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    1st gear Peftbl screenshot
    Click image for larger version. 

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    2nd gear Peftbl screenshot
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Current cal files and datalogs in .mpl and .csv
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by wheming; 04-03-2016 at 10:22 AM.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  15. #535
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    Have you thought about dragging the brakes? I know you do a lot of drag racing and that's not going to allow for max timing while at full load for 1min. However, if you're just dialing in the pftbl why not just drag the brakes to take the variable of the gearing out of the situation?

  16. #536
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    I did, and have done a log where i held the brakes a bit.
    It did allow for a few more data points. But the difficulty is in getting good points from the 2500 - 3500 range since this is a auto with a higher stall converter.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  17. #537
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    I did, and have done a log where i held the brakes a bit.
    It did allow for a few more data points. But the difficulty is in getting good points from the 2500 - 3500 range since this is a auto with a higher stall converter.
    I don't know how the factory guys handled that. I guess they only had to worry about up to 2K or so with the factory converters. How is it to tune in that range anyway? I would think a high stall converter where mean peak torque usually is for most of us wouldn't make it easy.

  18. #538
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    I don't know how the factory guys handled that. I guess they only had to worry about up to 2K or so with the factory converters. How is it to tune in that range anyway? I would think a high stall converter where mean peak torque usually is for most of us wouldn't make it easy.
    It was that lower part that i focused on gor a while, because i thought it was where the really rich cold start needed to be fixed from.
    But, it seems i have that resolved with the changes i made to the cold enrichment curves.

    Because of that, i wondered if i should raise my PumpEffTbl in the lower rpms back to where Rob had it in the original version custom cal.
    I think i am about 5-7% lower than it now.
    I might try messing with it after the races. I might not make too many more changes this week.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  19. #539
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    I never used that tool really, always just watch the gauge during a pull and made adjustments accordingly. Of course, I'm usually driving mine daily so I get more tuning time.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  20. #540
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Intro and Update: Slugmobile and Mean Mini! (long read, but worth it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    I never used that tool really, always just watch the gauge during a pull and made adjustments accordingly. Of course, I'm usually driving mine daily so I get more tuning time.
    I was trying to make the most of it as long as it was there. I was confused about the initial setup of it and found i had introduced some error.
    The only thing i still haven't resolved is how i am at the top of the efficiency for a wide rpm range. But, the afr logs seem happy, so i guess i won't worry too much.

    Some initial tip in when flooring it might need a little tweak too. It feels fine, and doesn't hesitate, but the log will show a count of brief lean. It may actually be normal if it happens for only one log event.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

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